Episode 185: The Language of Behavior with Charle Peck and Joshua Stamper

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 00:01

So I think one of the things I love most about what I get to do now are the people that I meet as a part of the process. I think a lot of people, when you jump into the work that I do or that both of my guests today on the podcast do, when people see that, they assume that you don't really have coworkers. They assume that you don't really...

build relationships like you would normally in an office. And as it turns out, my office, along with Josh Stamper and Charlie Peck, happens to be this big virtual office that occasionally is small enough that we run into each other in person. But I'm super excited to have a conversation today with my good friends Charlie Peck and Josh Stamper. Josh, Charlie, thanks for joining me here on the podcast.

Charle Peck (: 00:53

We're so glad to be here, are we Josh?

Joshua Stamper (: 00:55

Yeah, it's always good to see Darren.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 00:58

it's, it, this is a lot of fun to have a, have a chance to just sit down with the two of you. And obviously we're going to talk about the language of behavior, the, book that you guys have coming up, the podcast that you have launched, but man, there's just so much, right? And you've both been on the podcast before, so there's not a huge need for, Hey, here's who I am, but just give us like the, we're going from the first floor to second floor in the elevator, like that quick of the elevator version of who you are, Charlie. I'll start with you.

Charle Peck (: 01:28

Okay, all right, former teacher turned clinical therapist and trying to transform mental health and education. So there's a lot more to that, but all these great projects are kind of leaning towards that.

Joshua Stamper (: 01:43

Awesome. All right, I'll go next. So yeah, I was our teacher to administrator to then transitioning over to the Teach Better team for about five years now. Now going on my own with Aspire to Lead and yeah, just have the wonderful opportunity to work with Charlie Peck on this brand new book and we have a new podcast. So super excited to talk about those projects.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 02:04

Yeah, definitely some exciting stuff that the two of you have going on. you know, kind of like I said in the lead in there, we, we form these, these relationships through all kinds of different ways, right? And, and I tell people all the time that probably 95 % of the people that are in the space that the three of us are in really are rooting for each other are really like,

wanting to support each other, to lift each other up. They have this understanding that there's so much work out there to be done that we don't need to be like vicious competitors. Rather, we need to be the ones who help to push each other. both of you certainly have done that for me. Josh, obviously, your support with helping me grow the podcast and just

everything to do with that particular platform has just been amazing. And Charlie, of course, you and I have been part of the Teach Better MBA program for quite some time, which, I mean, we just continue to push each other on the business side, which has just been amazing. I know how I connected with each of you, but I'm curious about the connection for the two of you. And we'll talk later about why you decided to do a podcast and a book together, talk maybe, and Josh, I'll have you go first on this one.

Charle Peck (: 03:18

Right.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 03:26

Talk a little bit about the connection and how you two came together and ultimately decided to start doing some work together.

Joshua Stamper (: 03:34

Yeah, so I think the edupeineur group that you're talking about, Darren, is really where I connected first with Charlie, with the Teach Better team, and then I asked her, I think, to be on my podcast, and then I was a guest on her podcast, and we just had a lot of things as far as our values and ideas were connected and shared, and I don't know, I had this idea about this book, The Language of Behavior, it was a long time ago, a blog post that connected with a of folks, and then it kind of turned into a...

a presentation that I did at conferences and at school districts and then wanted to build a book off of that. So I actually reached out to Jamie Kostas through Connected Ed and he loved the idea. I put out a couple of chapters to him and then he was like, you know what? This has a like a really heavy admin lens to it. You know, let's, let's make it for all educators. So I came back and I sat on it, Darren, for like a couple months. Literally I was just like, I don't, I don't know if this is the right.

lens. Like I feel like I need to have an additional voice in this. I don't know why, but Charlie popped in my head of someone that I had just connected with that, you know, just we had the synergy that was connected right away. And so I reached out to her and was like, Hey, Charlie, this might sound crazy, but I had this idea. It's called the language of behavior. I've pitched it to Jimmy. You know, I think you would be a perfect co-author for this book. So we met online and talked through it. And like right away, Charlie,

I don't know, she must be crazy because she said yes immediately and then we put some chapters together, sent it over to Jimmy. Jimmy absolutely loves the voice and the lens that Charlie had to the book and literally we got a contract the next day. So Charlie obviously brings a ton of value to the resource and I'm just so proud and honored to have her as a co-author.

Charle Peck (: 05:24

I mean, I feel the same way Josh. It's so neat You know what when you come across people who it's easy with like it's easy to do this stuff with it is a huge commitment anyone who's written a book with somebody that they know you have to get along but you have to challenge each other and you have to learn to just be like listen I trust you enough to tell tell you what I think and also to receive like your opinion on what you think

And that's what I think works so well. So, I mean, it is so neat to come together with a project like this. The language of behavior, are you kidding me? Everybody needs to know about this. It's about tools and strategies to decode what's underlying the behavior. So I think it works so well to have Josh's amazing lens of not only just like an administrator, but as a human being, like great father, great husband, great friend, just such a neat guy. And I think together,

that perspective is just so neat. So yeah, it's exciting.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 06:24

Well, think I would agree with everything that both of you said there. think that that's really exciting. I'd certainly love to know that story about how, know, Josh, you're just like, hey, you know, Charlie, Charlie is the right person to connect with on this. And I would I couldn't agree with you more on that. So let's let's go into the actual language of behavior. And whether you want to talk about this from the perspective of here's kind of how we built the book or maybe just

Let's start with just that phrase, the language of behavior. Right now, as we're sitting recording this heading into the holiday break, this will be released sometime after the holiday break. But let's be honest. School teachers, school administrators, school counselors, school social workers, on and on and on. Everyone, as they're listening to this probably,

can think of three or four behaviors minimally that they're dealing with that certainly over time we've developed an education kind of a this is how you manage behavior, right? And I teach an online classroom management course for Fort Hay State University as example. And everybody comes into that course thinking classroom management is all about how you respond to certain behaviors.

Obviously that's not the direction I go with the course and I'm certain that the direction you two are going with this project is not there either. Let's decode that a little bit. The language of behavior. Talk to me a little bit more about that and how that can maybe start to permeate the brains of our listeners. And Charlie, I'll go to you first.

Charle Peck (: 08:18

Yeah, and I always go to Josh with this because I always say, hey Josh, this was your title. This is what he uses for all of his stuff. said, are you sure we should be calling our book this because I don't want to take it from you. And that is just a nice, kind-hearted guy he is. He's like, this is ours, this is ours. I love that title. I loved it when I heard of it because it's everything that I do is working with the underlying stuff going on. The behaviors are just the message. We all know this.

But what I love is about the language is that we can learn to decode that. We can learn to interpret the language so that we can digest it. That's why teachers are struggling so much. They don't get that kind of training. I'm glad you're doing that, Darren, because they're not getting that kind of training. So they're always like, what kind of tools and strategies can I use in my classroom to fix these kids or to respond, because they're not reactive right now, right? So what do I do to help those kids? And really, it always goes back to us.

but we need to be better at kind of being the detective to kind of decode that and interpret what that message is telling us. That's the gist. Now, Josh is gonna have a better lens, because I know that you do this work all the time, Josh, with leaders. So go ahead.

Joshua Stamper (: 09:32

Yeah, so thank you for those kind words, Charlie. The idea, Darren, behind it was, you know, this was during my administrative time, I was trying to change kind of the lens of how we responded to behavior and also the proactive strategies that we could put in the classroom. Because you're right, like a lot of folks, when they go through the teacher program, they're not getting this information as far as like classroom management. Unfortunately, they get tossed into a classroom. They know how to...

Create a lesson plan. They know how to provide instruction. They know how to give an assessment and maybe they know how to kind of work through the data. But as far as the classroom management stuff, they typically default to what they experienced as a student. as we know, that's a traditional approach and where we want to throw down the hammer. So for myself, when I became an administrator, I literally was given three things. It was detention, ISS and OSS. And that was my tool belt. And every person expected me to...

bring the hammer every single time there was a student behavior. And what I found out was it wasn't working. I was breaking relationships with my students and everybody, stakeholders were angry at me. And I was tired of this whole loop in system where I was really just throwing my hands up going, I just want to quit. Like I don't feel like I'm being effective. I'm just literally supposed to be the sheriff bringing fear to everybody. And instead like,

the behaviors are only increasing, not decreasing. So that's really where the concept came from. I will say that the pinpoint area that was groundbreaking for me as a human being was when I became a foster parent, because I started getting some training and some ideas of like where the behavior was coming from. And, you know, I started learning about the trauma and how it affects the body and how it affects the brain. And then they started using strategies that were far different than what I was using as administrator. And I started to make these connections going,

well, why would I do this as a parent and I would do the opposite as an administrator? It doesn't make sense. It's the same problem. It's human beings, right? So how can we have some compassion and how do we actually build relationships with these students and find the underlying issues that are going on in these lives so that we can build them up as human beings, right, to go through that hard adversity? And so that's really where the idea of the book came from. And so thankfully me and Charlie have really like...

Joshua Stamper (: 11:51

our hearts and souls into this book as far as like giving practical tools and strategies to help any educator to not only decode but then also do some pre-proactive strategies in the classroom, build healthy relationships, finding the underlying issues that are going on, but then like on the opposite side of when they are making mistakes, because that will happen as we all know, like how can we work through it where it's not just punishment, punishment, punishment, and really a fear-based model?

where we're actually going through and teaching the behaviors that we want and a way for them to restore what was broken.

Charle Peck (: 12:24

Darren, it's really important to know too that Josh, when he was a leader of that school, he did something completely innovative. So when I was actually reading through his part of the book, I was like, my gosh, we really have to get this part out. And they formed this group to try new strategies because they're like, listen, what we're doing is not working. Let's use this new process of trying new things and not doing this together, or sorry, not doing this on my own. Let's do this together as a team.

That is what's really unique about this book is that lens that you bring in Josh. I love that part of it myself. I can't wait to share it with others.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 13:02

So I'm curious. Let's go a little bit further with that. Because as you're sharing, Josh, your story, you're taking me back to my first administrative role. System principal, high school discipline. It's cookie cutter discipline. It's I'm the hammer, you're the nail, and you're right. I had the exact same three tools in my tool belt that you had. And they didn't work. I mean, they just didn't. You guys have heard me tell the story.

where my two roads diverged from that exact type of experience. More and more and more, schools are continuing though to struggle with that. And I think you're right. mean, it's the same thing that happens in the classroom that we fall back to, this is just how it was. It's the same thing as administrators, right? I mean, you go through your master's program, they don't teach you.

alternative ways to manage student behavior. don't teach you, let's think about what the root cause of the behavior is. Rather, it's punishment to gain compliance. well, we know that doesn't work. How then, let's talk maybe about the formation of that team, How do you gain that, that,

not critical mass, at least that beginning, that momentum of a group of people who collectively say, damn, enough is enough. Let's do something different. Talk about how that came about.

Joshua Stamper (: 14:43

Yeah, so I was frustrated. shared my frustration with my admin team and I said, look, I can show you all the data. And I did, I had it where it showed that we had every month more and more and more infractions and more and more discipline. And our ISS room was completely full. We had, you know, fights every other day on our campus. We, we had drugs, we had, you name it going on. And so with that, said, we can continue on this trajectory.

and I can just continue to do the expectations of detentions, ISS, OSS. And at that time we also did Saturday school. And I said, I can continue to those practices and we can continue to have, yeah, right? The great tool. I love those Saturday mornings. That was awesome. So my point was like, hey, can I just have permission to try something different? And at that point they kind of threw their hands up and they said, sure.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 15:23

Yeah, we had that one too. That was another great tool, right?

Charle Peck (: 15:28

I went to a Saturday school, a high school.

Joshua Stamper (: 15:40

So what I did was I was like, I need to find my disciples. I need to find like-minded folks that are willing to do something new, something, you know, try anything to see if we could go a different direction. And so what I created was what was, I called it the relationship action team. Unfortunately, the acronym is rats and we were called the rats team. I don't love that, but that's what it turned into. So what I did was I was just going through, I found a counselor, I found some

Charle Peck (: 15:59

It's easy.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 16:02

Whoops.

Joshua Stamper (: 16:08

teachers, all that were kind of just in the same boat, right? We were all frustrated with what we were doing before and we wanted to learn. I came in and I said, look, I don't have all the answers. I'm learning with you. I'm not like leading this group. What we're doing is we're bringing new ideas to the table. And so what we did as a collective group was we said, okay, there's some, some norms that we need to establish. So one was when you, when you get in the door, you need to be open-minded, right? We all have our own ideas, our own values, our own biases that we're going to bring to the table.

We need to leave that at the doorstep and we need to be open-minded. It may sound crazy. Someone might be a strategy that's, you know, being used in California and it's working for them. Let's just learn about it. And then the second piece is once we learn about it, we need to implement it in the classroom and we need to make sure that we understand that this may work or it may fail, but we're at least trying it. And then the third thing is if it works, then we need to share it with our peers. We need to make sure that we're communicating to other people to say, I tried this, it worked.

I think it might work for you too. Right. And then the last piece that kind of goes with that third is that we, we, we need to invite other people into the group. Right. So, Hey, I'm learning a bunch of the new things. It's awesome. Would you like to come and join the, in the group, especially if they're using the strategy that you communicated with them. And what we did, Darren was we started with like seven people at the beginning of the school year. This was like mid year. This isn't even a full year of the rats group, the relationship action team.

by the end of the school year, had half the staff that was on the relationship action team. So then this next year, it was easy to say, Hey, this is something that is building momentum and it's just going to be a campus expectation moving forward. Is this whole idea of changing the way that we do things in the classroom. And it was easy to make that, that shift over as far as a campus initiative, because it was a grassroots thing. It wasn't me from the top saying, Hey, as a campus, this is what we're going to do from day one. You Darren, as you know,

as a leader that would be like a compliance-based thing they'd be like fine and they would begrudgingly and so maybe the top 10 % that you know would take it on and do it a wonderful job and then the rest of them would just be kind of on the fence like why are we doing this is this going to last for a long time and then you know you got others that would push back on it and never do it from day one so with this kind of flipping it and doing a grassroots movement i already had momentum built so when it was the second year to say hey this is what we're doing this campus

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 18:08

No.

Joshua Stamper (: 18:33

I really didn't get anyone to say like, no, I don't want to do this. was kind of, they already knew it was occurring in the classroom. They already heard about the relationship action team. They also heard that it was working in the classroom and some of the strategies that were already being implemented. So that's the relationship action team. And that's kind of how we started to implement that on the campus level.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 18:51

So I have two thoughts on that, and then I want to come to Charlie for a question. First and foremost, it absolutely is essential. folks, if you're not picking up from what Josh just said, you've got to build that team around you. If it comes from you at the top and only you, and you say this is what we're going to do, I mean, we've all been through that.

that whole thing, right? The second thing, let's not lose sight of the fact that Josh ended up with a ship full of rats. I think that's a rather interesting piece. Charlie, I'm curious. So, I mean, obviously the proof is there, know, Josh led that work, but from the therapist's side, let's talk about the science behind this. Let's talk about like, that deep in the core of the brain, why.

Charle Peck (: 19:23

Thank you.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 19:45

the language of behavior.

Charle Peck (: 19:47

Yes, because we have to realize that the brain is scanning the environment for negativity. It's looking all the time for, what is that that's going to get me? What's going to harm me? And so we all come in with these different perceptions and oftentimes we're just dead wrong. And so when I'm, as a therapist, I'm working on this thing called the story spirals. Well, what are you telling yourself? What is it that you're telling yourself that's based on total lies but carrying throughout your day?

What the team approach does, what I love about this is we get to challenge each other in a really safe, secure space, but also we're thinking, we're pulling in people's lenses and saying, listen, what you need to do is create this environment for kids that we're all going to be around. We're all going to wrap our arms around these kids and help them. That is the science behind it. The community, the connection, that is what's gonna drive the change. That's what our kids need.

Everything else that we are doing is isolating them, or isolating them from their peers, isolating them from us. It sends the message to them, I don't want you in here. You're not worth being in here, or I can't handle you, or I am annoyed by you. I can't stand to be in your presence. We are taking the complete opposite approach to that, and that is what is going to drive these kids back. That language, that underlying language is I'm isolated, I'm alone, I feel rejected, I feel like I don't know who I am, I don't feel like I belong.

This brings them right back there. That's why they wanna keep coming back to that teacher's classroom who's gonna welcome them in, or the building. And there's more to it, but I'll stop there. I could go on for a few hours about this. You wrote a book, so it's a lot in there, because there's so much to say. There really is. We actually had to take so much out about some of the science. Jimmy was like, you know what? People don't need to hear all of that. But yeah, it's a big piece.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 21:23

I love that.

no, that's all good. mean, you take as much time as you want. I am totally okay with that. I'm curious, so...

Yeah.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 21:44

Right. Yeah, you got to certainly find that balance there. So let's throw a little bit more value here to our listeners. So I mean, I'm sold. I'm convinced. But now give me a strategy. If the two of you showed up on my campus, and you're going to work with my leadership team, you're going to work with my staff, you're going to work with whatever, right? Let's talk strategies.

you know, give us a strategy that we can go and implement in our classrooms and say, hey, let's give this one a shot.

Charle Peck (: 22:20

Yeah, Josh needs to tell you about the push-in model. I tell it to everybody now. I love it. It is something that we can absolutely do. It pulls in the team approach, but also gives that time and space for the teacher to reconnect with the kid, which is essential. Go ahead, Josh.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 22:34

All right, let's go.

Joshua Stamper (: 22:34

Yeah, so this was discovered in that relationship action team. Someone had found this, I think in like St. Louis of all places. They heard about it, they brought it to the table, and were like, let's try it at least, right? So what the Pritchett model is was that we started to look at the data and we started to see that the low level infractions were a really high amount of things. So that's like essentially disrespect or trying to be a class clown or whatnot, right? A disruption in the classroom.

finding that thousands of minutes were being lost just because of these low level infractions. So we're like, well, what can we do to keep the student in the classroom, but still allow the teacher to have an opportunity to speak with them, to kind of get them, you know, back on the right page. So the push-in model is that the teacher, when they, you know, have a low level infraction and they want to speak to the kid, they call the front office and they ask for a push-in. Push-in can be any staff member, right? It could be a coach, it be another teacher, could be an administrator, counselor, whoever.

goes into the classroom, leaves the teacher so the teacher is able to get like three to five minutes with the child outside of the classroom, away from their peers, right, because we're not trying to call them out, where they can ask a couple clarifying questions of really kind of getting an idea of what's going on in their world to figure out, one, do you need resources? Then two, get them on the same page as far as the expectations and then have a verbal agreement of getting them back in the classroom to kind of reset them, right? So they take the student for a walk.

maybe get a drink of water, taking somewhere else, right? and get kind of understanding of what's going on because especially in middle school, Darren, you know this kid could have, you know, a confrontation with their girlfriend or their boyfriend in the hallway. And then it kind of derails everything inside of them. So they're not really there to learn. And then you can start seeing these disruptive behaviors or maybe it's not compliance or putting their head down or whatnot. Right? So this gives an opportunity for the teacher. Cause this was the biggest thing is like, I don't have time and space.

to work with the kid, want that opportunity, but I just don't have that when I have 30 other kids in the classroom. Well, the pushing allows that teacher or administrator to go in the classroom or leave them for a very short period of time so that the kids can continue to work as far as a class, but then it gives the teacher the opportunity to really get to know the kid a little bit more, to show them, care about you, I want you in this space, right? Instead of just kicking them out, which Charlie's already talked about what that looks like and how it feels to that kid.

Joshua Stamper (: 24:59

It really just gives that one-on-one time with the teacher and the student to get to the bottom of things to get a better understanding. And then again, like I said, have those expectations reviewed and agreed upon to get them back into the educational space with the content expert.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 25:18

super powerful stuff right there. I love that so much. How did you make sure, like what was the strategy for when they call for a push? I mean, was there, we have somebody on standby, it's just whoever's available. I mean, you had to build a system around

Joshua Stamper (: 25:31

Yes.

for sure. So then we were looking at the master schedule and we literally had a push in team and then everyone that was on that push in team had a radio with them on hand. like our coach, we had one coach that was a part of that push in team that we knew he was kind of an extra body that could easily leave the gym to be able to go to classroom. So it was kind of more on proximity and availability, but we did have a team. when the front office called for a push in, then whoever was the closest and available would then just get on the radio and say, Hey,

I'm there, I'm going to the push-in, so everybody else on that team, the push-in team, knew that it was being covered. So we had, I don't know, seven, eight adults that were able to go in. We also did a training, we also met regularly to make sure they were all on the same page as far as the system and the process, and then also to get some feedback of, we need to make some changes moving forward?

Charle Peck (: 26:25

And let me just say this, as a teacher I would...

Charle Peck (: 26:33

I've got a lot of stuff to do. But if you think about it like this, this is what people have to understand is it's very reciprocal. Like they'll do it for you, you do that for me. And ultimately the goal is to keep the kid in the classroom. They're not losing that instruction time. So you actually have time later because you're not off track, especially dealing with that kid later and creating more work. You also reduce the behaviors over time. What Josh and I aren't really saying enough here is this is preventative.

These are strategies and tools that are preventative. Over time, if you spent more time with Josh, he'd tell you about all of the things that happened as a positive result that reduced those behaviors. And it brings the staff back together too. A lot of staff are working in this disjointed system and they're so like feeling chaotic, they're feeling overwhelmed, burned out, a lot of people are stepping out. These are strategies, especially this one, I loved it because...

It's a strategy that's gonna pull us back together as a staff. It's gonna create that positive climate that we need. And it gives solutions to those problems that we don't know what to do on our own. See, that's the problem is we can't do these things on our own. We have to have the team around us. And that's why when Josh said he selected people where people stood up first to do this and then others followed, that's how we're gonna create that change. We've got to stick with the people who want to spark this change.

who will demonstrate to the other people who are kind of like, you know, I don't know about this. They're gonna demonstrate it and then cheerlead it on because they're gonna see the effects of it. That's what's awesome about this kind of thing. And that's just one of many. mean, there's these strategies I'm thinking in my head, because we're just wrapping up the book now and all these things are coming back. There's so many strategies that are practical. Like they are going to infuse in your everyday practice. Some you have to plan for and that's just part of it.

But some just infuse into your everyday practice. And even if you've heard them before, like one of our tenants, we call them the three tenants. It's the framework that we use to actually teach it and train it. The first one is about the environment, but we offer some new things and we offer you to just challenge your prior thinking. Maybe it wasn't working. Maybe this is a new approach. Maybe you need to try this new thing. So that's where we're coming to you with. I mean, it's really exciting. It's gotta be practical though.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 28:52

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I'm sure there's just so much information that you guys can continue to share so much so that you decided to launch a podcast titled the language of behavior, which just makes perfect sense. So talk just a little bit about what's happening on the podcast, kind of how you guys have structured that and obviously where people can find it.

Charle Peck (: 29:15

Yeah, go ahead, Josh. You know where all that stuff is.

Joshua Stamper (: 29:19

yeah, so I mean, you can find it on any podcast platform, but the language of behavior, the reason we did the podcast, as we've kind of mentioned, Charlie, especially like there's so much information, right? And as far as the book goes, obviously we poured a ton into that resource, but at the same point, we also had to cut a ton out of the book. And so we want to make sure that we had a space for people to be able to kind of get a weekly.

injection of information about the science, about the background, but then also strategies that they can implement right away, where they don't have to wait for the book to come out. Obviously it's coming out soon, but, also some continued conversation. And what we've also tried to do during is we've tried to get people's questions, right? So whatever's happening in the world right now, they're sending questions to us and then we're trying to take those questions and answer them on the podcast, to make sure that it's relevant and it's timely, within the episode.

And then we're also monthly bringing in guests to come in and to speak knowledge and wisdom into the topic of student behavior. So we just had Todd Nesslone on, he did a brilliant job. So, you know, for folks that know about him, the coauthor of Kids Deserve It, definitely check that out. He was amazing as always. So we're going to continue to have that model where Charlie and I, for the most part, are speaking on the podcast monthly, but then we occasionally will have guests come in and also share their perspective.

Charle Peck (: 30:44

Yeah, and what's really good about it, Darren, is that your listeners can get pieces of information that we're seeing in schools today. I'm a school-based therapist, too. I do that with the minimal time I have. I wish I could do it more to work with those kids more. But I get to see it on the inside. And so a lot of problems are happening about the communication. So one of the things that Josh and I did is we did two or three episodes about how do we actually improve

that communication system with an outside therapist coming into your school. Like how do you even do that? And by the way, how can teachers be better informants? How can they be accrued? Cause they are, they're a critical part of this mental health team. Okay. We, and we forget about that. Yeah. And so we forget about that. So anyway, it's it's a big problem that we're having that disconnect, but this is a good way for Josh and I to solidify the system and give people step-by-step of what to do.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 31:21

I'm still recording.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 31:39

outstanding stuff. think it's definitely something that is needed. It's definitely a resource that a lot of people are going to take advantage of and definitely I will be shouting it at the top of the mountains to the mountains here in Nebraska. Shouting it from the top of the mountain that definitely everybody needs to be checking out the work that Josh and Charlie are doing. Josh, I'll go to you first on this.

final piece. You know what's the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. I ask everybody who comes on the show how they're leaning into leadership. You've shared so much, but maybe just one more thing that you're doing to lean into leadership right now.

Joshua Stamper (: 32:24

think that just be confident in going against the grain as a leader. I know for me, especially starting this work, I kind of wanted to live up to the expectations of others and I wanted to lean into some things that I didn't agree with or have value in. I just felt like I needed to, and Darren, me and you have talked about this on a shared episode before of like being Superman, right? I wanted to like take care of all the problems and I wanted to...

do what people expected of me or viewed me as an administrator. And what I found was it really was just killing me inside because I felt like I was not being true to myself and my belief system. And once I started to go against the grain on that and say, screw it, I'm just going to be who I am as a leader and take it or leave it. This is who I'm going to be. That's when I started to find my joy and my passion, things that I lost as an administrator. And if you want to be the best version of yourself,

you do need to lean into the things that you truly to your core have beliefs in. And once you start to fall in line with that, I think that's when you are more powerful on the campus and are a better leader. So I know for this work specifically, I just did a 180 and because of it, as a human being, I was better. I know for my students, I was better, for my staff, for my family at home, I was just like a whole new person, renewed.

And it was because I wasn't pretending to be someone I wasn't.

Charle Peck (: 33:54

Yeah, it is such a, it's a great question, Darren. It's about understanding who you have around you already that are willing and able to make the changes that you would like to be a part of, that your vision includes them. And right now that's teachers. Right now, our teachers are asking to be equipped. They want those practical tools and strategies. Many of them, they might have one foot out the door because they're not being heard and they're not getting those.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 33:55

All right, Charlie.

Charle Peck (: 34:23

but you have the power to pull them along and say, I've got something for you. Let's do this together. And so those practical strategies will go a long way. They want to feel energized again, and this is how we'll do it. But I really believe that we need to reinvest in our teachers.

Dr. Darrin Peppard (: 34:43

There we go. Outstanding stuff, my friends. So good to have an opportunity to spend some time with you and to talk about the language of behavior. So Charlie, Josh, thank you so much for joining me here on Leaning Into Leadership.

Charle Peck (: 34:57

Thanks for having us. Thank you.

Joshua Stamper (: 34:58

Yes, thank you so much,