Episode 193
Episode 193: Co-Authoring Culture First Classrooms, A Behind the Scenes Look with Katie Kinder
In this episode, returning guest Katie Kinder joins Dr. Darrin Peppard for a behind-the-scenes look at their upcoming book, Culture First Classrooms: Leadership, Relationships, and Practices that Transform Schools. They dive into the journey of co-authoring a book, the power of classroom culture, and how fostering strong relationships transformsschools.
Katie and Darrin share personal stories about their paths as educators, what led them to co-write this book, and how they selected 21 amazing contributors to share their insights. They also explore why great teaching is an art, not a formula, and how school leaders can support teachers in building a culture-first approach to education.
Key Takeaways:
✅ Culture comes first—without strong relationships and a supportive environment, no initiative will thrive.
✅ Teaching is artistry—there’s no single way to be effective, and great educators bring energy, fun, and connection to their work.
✅ Leadership impacts everything—when educators feel empowered and valued, they take more risks and push students to succeed.
✅ This book is a lifeline—it’s filled with real, actionable insights from educators leading the way in post-pandemic classrooms.
About Katie Kinder:
Katie Kinder, author of Untold Teaching Truths and Hallway Leadership, is a passionate professional learning facilitator and education advocate. With nearly two decades in education, she inspires and equips teachers with real strategies to hook students from day one. A former Teacher of the Year and Top Five District Finalist, Katie brings energy, authenticity, and a deep love for educators everywhere.
Connect with Katie Kinder:
🌐 Website | 📌 Twitter/X | 📷 Instagram | 🔗 LinkedIn
Pre-Order the Book!
📖 Culture First Classrooms: Leadership, Relationships, and Practices that Transform Schools—Coming March 2025! Stay tuned for launch details and exclusive pre-order bonuses.
Bring Culture First to Your School!
Darrin and Katie are developing Culture First Coaching & Consulting, bringing hands-on leadership and instructional coaching to schools nationwide. If you’re interested in bringing Culture First to your school, reach out to learn how they can support your educators.
📩 Contact Darrin and Katie to bring Culture First Coaching to your school!
Transcript
All right, everybody. Welcome back into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Holy cow, my guest on the show today, a return guest here on the podcast, my friend, Katie Kinder. Katie, thanks so much for spending some time with me.
Katie Kinder (:I am so happy to be back. We've got some stuff in the pipeline. Like we are about to get into it. So I'm of course happy to be back on the road to awesome with you.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Good stuff. Good stuff. Yeah, we definitely have some stuff in the pipeline. For those who don't know, and I just talked about this in a recent episode here on the podcast, but Katie and I have a new book coming out that we have co authored, Culture First Classrooms. my gosh, we're so excited about this book and about just getting this thing out into the world. So I don't know where you want to go with the conversation today, Katie. I got to...
Katie Kinder (:Yes.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:I don't know, like a dozen ideas. But what I really would love to do for our listeners is maybe just share, I don't know, maybe some of the journey of going through co authoring a book. I mean, it's one thing when you author book on your own. It's a completely different journey when you're co authoring. So or at least that's how I felt about it. So really quick for those maybe who who don't know Katie kinder, mean,
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:can't imagine there's anybody listening who doesn't know who the Katie Kendra is but Katie just give him like I don't know like the very quick like first to fourth floor elevator that's who you are.
Katie Kinder (:Beach. Okay, hi friends. I'm Katie Kinder. I've been an educator since 2006. I train teachers and I love the baby teachers. I always talk about how much I love those baby teachers in your first five years. We gotta keep them. And I love to give them tools to be able to stay and love our kids. And I've, you know, written a couple books and I speak on stages and that's kind of how I met Darren. I met Darren in Vegas in person. know,
We're in this fear of like online stuff and you see somebody who's a speaker and they say they're a speaker and then you see somebody else who's a speaker and they say they're a speaker and then when you meet them in person you're just like you're not sure and when I sat in Darren's session in Vegas on the front row because I'm a front row kind of girl I was just riveted and I was like we were a lot alike and he leads the way that I teach and
and vice versa and so he came to one of my sessions and so I can, it's always refreshing when somebody is as good in person as they seem to be online, which is not always the case.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, that is very true. And I would say the same thing for you. I remember that time in Vegas. you know what's really funny about that one is I had been in central New York doing a two-day leadership retreat with a leadership team and had to fly into Vegas. And my flight was canceled. So I was supposed to fly out of one New York airport, ended up having to...
take a shuttle from Newark over to JFK and then I had a super late night flight and I get into Vegas at like two in the morning and I did not stay at Caesars where the conference was. I stayed just off the strip. Used to live really close to Vegas so I mean I know the area extremely well so how no big deal get in at like 2 a.m. or whatever. It's like a it's like a mile and a half walk from my hotel to down to Caesars. No big deal right?
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:except it's the middle of July, so it's like 8,000 degrees in Las Vegas. And I had just got into Caesars and back to the conference center, and that's when I ran into you and Charles right away. And I'm just like dripping sweat. I'm like, this is the last first impression I would have wanted to make, right? Because I'm hauling my backpack. I mean, yeah, I was just, yeah, that was wasn't the best first impression. But yeah.
Katie Kinder (:Well, we are just, you know, we're human. And he said Charles, who's also a...
who's also a co-author and you know, he's known worldwide as the Velvet Voice of Education. And we were excited to meet you because of course, you know, we had been seeing you online and can't wait to like hook up and take a picture. And we also got to sit down and have, I think, a meal together with other speakers, which was also, is a core memory for me. And just that you were helping us because you've been at it a little bit longer than me. And so I was just peppering you with questions.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Absolutely.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah. Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:and you were precious and I appreciate it and so that's kind of where we really started the journey and then from there we've shared spaces and we did a session together in North Carolina that Darren is keynoting here in a couple weeks yeah and and then we were like we should we should write this book like this is gonna be a book and that's kind of where it started
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, and I mean, just one more thought really quick on Vegas that that just really showed how in alignment you and I are. went to I think I went to your session before mine or maybe I went before you. I don't remember the order, but I remember you jumped up on the chair and I'm like, my God, that's that's a that's a me move. I love this. Katie gets up on the chairs and you know, just just that energy and
Katie Kinder (:Mm-hmm.
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, the passion you have for education and for teachers and man, just I love it. And so, so yeah, at a point in time, folks, we just said, hey, we should write a book together. And I don't think we had any clue what we were doing when we said that. But certainly now, now that this thing's like, I mean, it's in editing right now, it is going to be live soon. I'm already starting to
Katie Kinder (:Bye.
Katie Kinder (:We didn't.
Katie Kinder (:I know!
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Part of part of I guess, you know being the being the publisher also This is maybe good. Maybe not. I don't know but you know, I get feedback Much more quickly than I would if the editor didn't live in my house So, I mean, yeah, she's she's already shared a couple things like, you know, I think we had to work on some structure Yeah, yeah She is rode awesome publishing not me. That is 100 % her. So Yeah, so so okay. So let's talk about this. Let's let's talk about how
Katie Kinder (:Right. Darren's wife is our editor. Yeah.
He is. She's awesome.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:we came to a focus on classroom culture. know, in my memory on this, and you can fill in the fuzzy parts for me, I had started teaching this classroom management course and I'm like, I want to do something on classroom management. And I don't teach the course based on management, I teach it on culture. And I know that's something you and I are both really big on. And it seems like it just kind of took off from there.
Katie Kinder (:It did.
It did. Because I think that you shared one of my podcasts when I was on with the Velvet Voice, with Velvet. Yeah. And that your students were like, well, it was good. Got a lot of like just nuggets and things like that. And I'm like, we could do this. We could do it on a larger scale. And we can we can pull in these people who are currently practicing in a post pandemic classroom, in a post pandemic school. And they are being so sick.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:On Charles's, yeah, counter-narrative, man.
Katie Kinder (:successful teachers of the year, administrators of the year, and like pull it all in to be a lifeline really to teachers and administrators and superintendents everywhere. And so I'm really proud of it. I think it's gonna hit and I think it's gonna hit big. It's good.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. I would agree. And I think, you know, I see it all the time. I know you're in schools all the time, too, that we've we've been pushed to this point where there's such a focus on that outcome on the test score on
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:the stuff that needs to be done, right? And, you know, and it's all good stuff. I I don't think there's anything out there, any initiative that a district has taken on that isn't good. It's just sometimes we take on so much that we forget. And this is just my personal belief, my professional belief is that culture is first. If we're not focusing on the culture in the classroom first, if we're not focusing on the...
Katie Kinder (:Sure.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:culture in the school first if we're not focusing on the culture in the district first. All that other stuff. I and I lived it. I worked in a district that had 13 initiatives in the air at the same time and nothing ever worked. And he always said our assistant superintendent, great guy, really intelligent guy, had this vision in his head, but he never could like help us understand how it all came together. He would always call this, you know,
our scores would go down and he's like, it's an implementation tip. And no, it's not. It's a culture gap. You know, if your culture isn't where it needs to be, you could invest. I don't care what you invest in things. You're not going to get the best benefit out of it. So, wow, I got a little passionate about that because that's what I truly believe. And I think that's what this book is all about.
Katie Kinder (:truth facts.
Katie Kinder (:I agree. Bradley, so Bradley Skinner, who's one of our authors, who worked for you at some point.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, with me. Nobody works for me. They work with me.
Katie Kinder (:They worked with you, not for you, but he just posted on Facebook where he went from having a leader that wouldn't let kids talk and wouldn't let kids have a cool assembly and wouldn't allow that to you are shaving his head in front of new leader in a different kind of culture and because you flipped it and I mean
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yes. Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:You're you have these outcomes that are huge and I see it a lot too like You know I go into a school and I have a baby teacher who's just drowning she doesn't know what she doesn't know he or she and tears and You know, I need this data and I need this and I need the end
Like I want to like hold their hands and be like take a breath. Like you have to establish procedures and you have to establish routines and you have to establish relationships before you can get to any learning. Before you can wrap curriculum around and I'm listen, I want to look at data. I want data to inform my practices. I think we should, but the very first thing we got to do is to love kids and to create a family classroom in which kids can take big risks. And one of the
reasons my test scores were the best in my district was because as a team, not just me, as a team we did that. We took kids in, we helped raise them together, we were on this mission, and because of that our kids did really well on everything.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think the more you lean into never forget that we're in the people business, right? And it's so easy to forget about that, right? That the product we produce is a person. mean, it's we're not making widgets here. You know, this is about people. And if if we don't really lean in and build those relationships and I love that you brought up the thing with with Bradley, not one of my only
Katie Kinder (:Right. Uh-uh.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:former teachers that that's in this book, Tanya Follum also, who was a special ed teacher with me at Rock Springs High School, phenomenal teacher. But with Bradley, know, he's such a perfect example of when we're in the right environment, how we can really thrive. And when we're in a toxic environment, how we won't.
Katie Kinder (:So good.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:You know, I worked in both types of environments and when you work in those toxic environments, when you work in those ones where it's about compliance or it's about, you know, just simply, you know, data only, then what happens, and you referred to it, but what happens is people kind of withdraw. They just want to close their classroom door and just do their thing.
Katie Kinder (:Me too.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:and they don't take any risk. You you talked about creating a space where kids can take risks. If teachers don't feel safe to take risks, there's no way kids will feel safe to take risks. this isn't a pat me on the back kind of thing, but with Bradley, know prior to coming to us, he didn't have that kind of experience. And being in our school where it was, he had some different ideas and I'd say.
Katie Kinder (:Facts on facts. Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Okay, cool. Give it a try. And if it works, awesome. And if it doesn't, then stop. mean, tell me if you need help. Tell me if you want some some feedback. I'll come spend time in your room. And, and that was not the experience that he had had before. And now I will tell you. go ahead. go ahead.
Katie Kinder (:Let's try it.
Katie Kinder (:and how empowering.
Yeah, and that's, yeah, I mean, it's just so empowering as a teacher. So I think I wrote in the book, I think it was like 30, I've had 32 different administrators in my career. And that is like from, from, you know, that's assistant principals, principal interns and head principals. So like, that's a lot. And you think about, you know, having that many leaders. And I had two, like that were,
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Wow.
Katie Kinder (:that it was really rough. Like we were struggling to connect with kids because we weren't filled up from the top down. And then I've had two who were like...
The rock stars, I still talk about them in every space I go into. And everybody else kind of fall, you know, they fell in the middle. And spectrum wise. And I just, like you, you are on this side of this rock star. I'm gonna empower my teachers to be the best versions of themselves. I'm gonna make sure that they're a person before they're a piece of data. I'm gonna make sure that we have fun. Like we don't outgrow play. We don't ever outgrow play.
my friends and because of fostering that kind of culture in classrooms and in buildings then you get something where kind of like lightning in a bottle, lightning strikes and you've got this building that is just on fire for kids and for learning and for each other and yeah like you said he didn't work for me he worked with me and having that
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:mindset as a leader is huge. mean you're serving your people so they can serve kids and that's what our book is all about really.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I could talk about Bradley for hours, but folks, just so you know, I have Bradley coming up on the show too. So stay tuned. Yeah, I'm gonna have Bradley on the show. So we'll talk more about that experience. I'll let him talk more about that experience at that point in time. So let's do this. Let's, you know, we've mentioned a couple of our contributors.
Katie Kinder (:good, good, yeah. Tune in, he's fun.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:And in a previous episode, I listed all 21 of them. So we've got their names out there. Let's talk first about how we identified who we went to. I mean, you've seen it before. I've seen it before. Where there are those who, like, hey, I want to get people to contribute to my book. And they just put a post on social media. And then there's an application process.
Katie Kinder (:now.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:We didn't go that way. And not that there's anything wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. That's just not the approach we took. talk about, you know, how, how some of the ones that you identified ended up in the book. I'll do the same thing. And I don't know, we can just go back and forth with a few and we don't have to talk about all 21 that would take forever, but just, just a few.
Katie Kinder (:Well, I think it's really cool that we know.
that teaching is artistry and that leading is artistry and leading districts is artistry. So we are not carbon copies of each other. Like I'm not going to be Darren and you're not going to be me. Although we have very similar ideas about education. Like you're going to teach a class way different than I would step in and teach a class. And I think it's really empowering to know that you can have these phenomenal teachers who are winning awards.
winning teacher of the year, admin of the year, and their approach is vastly different. And so for instance, I have Pat Terry, Patrick Terry, Coach Terry, who he was a coach, but he knew his first job was teaching. And he had like Socratic seminars and he was this giant bearded man and they just had a blast in his room, but he had, I mean, procedures and kids would never step out of line in his room because they loved him too much.
And then you come to sweet Tiffany Doris who I was her instructional coach for some years and she is just Precious and they would never step out of line because she's just way too precious, but she runs a tight ship. She's got Innovative practices. She's got I mean and I think that's really cool that in the book we see That we are not carbon copies of each other. There are lessons in there the toothpaste lesson
which is so fun. Jackie has this lesson called the toothpaste lesson. You gotta get the book and read about it. And then we have a former superintendent who's a Gen Z, Gen Alpha, Dr. Chris Culver.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:from Jackie.
Katie Kinder (:who is phenomenal and some of the things that he did in his district and how he has learned about how our kids have evolved. We've got Stacey Nation who is up to date on what trauma does to the brain and how you might have 15 kids sitting in a class of 32 and 15 of them might have a high A score and what do you do then? And I just think it's such an array of people who are killing the game.
And that you could take as a teacher and as a principal and as a superintendent that you can crack open that book and be like, I'm gonna take toothpaste, I'm gonna take this from Pat Terry, I'm gonna take, you know, and I'm gonna know how Gen Z and Gen Alpha are being raised and I can create things around that. And so I think it's gonna be a lifeline. So tell me, tell me how you picked your people who I've also become friends with. I love it.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'll go. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I mean, I could probably go like individual by individual, but the one that's like right at the top of my mind right now is Lori Boudreaux, who is a high school English teacher at Papillion-Livesta High School, which is here in Omaha. I met Lori because her principal, Jason Ryan, reached out to me.
Katie Kinder (:Of course.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Two and a half years ago, hey, I'm a brand new principal. I want to coach. I've been coaching him and his leadership team now for two and a half years. I'm in that building at least once a month. And I've been in Lori's room probably, I'm going to say 15 times. She's the English department chair. She's an instructional coach in the building. They kind of do like a one period kind of rotation thing for that.
Katie Kinder (:I mean.
Katie Kinder (:and
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:I was in Lori's room when you and I were kind of early in the process of identifying who we might invite to be part of the book. I was in Lori's room and she had the most interesting room layout. Like her seating arrangement was, it had changed. And we were there, the bell rang, and I just am like, Lori, tell me about your seating arrangement. Like where did this come from, right?
You know a big thing for me, I push this with every administrator I coach every time I speak, be curious. Don't be judgmental when you're in the classroom, be curious. And so I just ask Lori, tell me about the seating arrangement. And she went on to explain why she had used this particular one and how she uses like eight different arrangements and there's like all these. And I'm like, my gosh, we have got to have Lori talk about her seating arrangements, which she does in the book. But then, I mean, honestly,
Katie Kinder (:Mmm.
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Laurie wrote us like a book, you know, this is what happens when you ask an English teacher to write something and you give them no boundaries. Because like, I mean, what Laurie wrote is awesome. It is so good. We really and again, we're still in the editing process. So there's a chance Laurie's chunks get broken in different chunks and spread around the book because there's so much from her. But, you know, Laurie is a traditional teacher. You know, she's she's not she's not like Bradley Bradley, you go Bradley Shreem, you never know.
Katie Kinder (:Yeah, we've got a couple of those.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:I mean, I was in Bradley's room one time and he had Taylor Molly, you know, the guy who wrote the poem, What a Teacher Makes, on Zoom in his classroom, right? That's not Laurie. Laurie is much more traditional, but she's still phenomenal. She's killing it. She does an incredible job with relationships and she's a great leader on her campus. So just getting to know Laurie at a point, I remember walking away and I turned to Jason and I'm like, all right, look, we'll write this book.
Katie Kinder (:Nice.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Do you think Lori would have any interest in writing something for the book? And he's like, you know what? She's one of my very best. What an incredible way. And I think this is true for all 21, but especially those who are still in the classroom, still in the building right now. What a great way to get some, some recognition for the genuinely incredible work that they do day in, day out. You know, I mentioned, you know, Tanya Follum.
Katie Kinder (:No.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:There's somebody who I think is as great of a teacher as I've ever been around. And she and I, man, over the years, shared tears, shared laughter, you know, really brainstormed, you know, what's the best thing here? Pushed back sometimes against our central office because we didn't agree with with where they wanted to go with things. But she's not somebody who's who's going to get all this recognition because that's not what she's looking for. But man, you know, we did these
Katie Kinder (:you
Katie Kinder (:Sure? Sure.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:We did these Canva things, right? Where our contributors got to put on social media that they're a contributor to the books. And oh my gosh, reading some of the things on Tanya's post, you know, from former students, from fellow teachers, just for them to get that recognition and to have the spotlight shined on them. I mean, the fact that you and I have the space and the ability to shine the spotlight on them, I think over and above how amazing this book is.
Katie Kinder (:Yes.
Katie Kinder (:Mm.
Katie Kinder (:Absolutely.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:I think it's an incredible gift for us, but also for them.
Katie Kinder (:attitude.
Yeah, and so I think too sometimes teachers are like maybe too humble like they just they go in and they do this phenomenal job and and they don't they're not on Twitter X or wherever and saying like check out what my kids are doing and we have that too but some of the ones that wrote for us and I will not name the names that I kind of had to push like are you sure you want me like are you sure and I was like I have seen
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:the gamut of teaching. I have seen it all and you are one of the best. Sit down and write your process. And so I think it's really cool that we get to do that as well. Like sit down and do it. No, I have seen it and I know. And still, still, they're like, are you sure? I don't wanna brag. Like no, no, no, you're not. You are, you are getting. We did.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, yeah. Well, we had a few bow out and I think it was that exact reason. Yeah, and it's too bad because man, those ones who bowed out are like, my God, you know, I mean, I, I won't, I won't say the name, but, but I know I shared with you an elementary teacher in a school that I was supporting last year that every time I was in her room, I was just blown away. And ultimately she didn't end up writing for us, but yeah, some amazing stuff.
Katie Kinder (:We did! I hate that.
Katie Kinder (:They did.
Katie Kinder (:Mm.
Katie Kinder (:Well, and I think I've actually had...
I've had two people, like now that it's like hitting and they got to, we got to vote on the cover and we love the cover and all of the graphics and everything's coming out and the book's about to hit. I've had a couple teachers reach out and was like, I regret it. I'm like, I know. And so maybe this is not the end of shining a light on all of the teachers that are just crushing it and the educators and the principals and superintendents and the people who are just dropping that mic every day.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:I think you're absolutely right. think this is the beginning. I don't think this is the end. think we're starting with Culture First Classrooms, but who knows? Maybe Culture First Schools is going to be our next project. Who knows? Last time we were on a podcast together, I think is kind how we ended up with the book. So maybe we're talking ourselves into a second one before the first one's even out.
Katie Kinder (:Yeah, I like it.
Katie Kinder (:I think we just did.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, we might have and that's fine. because you know, I hadn't really thought too much about it until we until we dove into this conversation. But being able to, you know, shine that spotlight on such amazing, incredible educators, I think is, is fantastic. I mean, I'm thinking about a teacher right now in one of my Nevada districts that I support that, man, every time I'm in her room, she's like, Give me more, give me more, give me more. And you know, I'm there to coach the principal, but but ultimately, of course, I'm
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:Wow
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:you know, I'm coaching the teachers too, but yeah, and she'll be, she could potentially be another one of those examples. So here's what I'm wondering about, and you and I barely talked about this. I mean, we're starting to kick this around, you know, if you're a school leader, if you're a district leader and you're thinking, man, this sounds really, really cool, you might also be thinking, how do I get Darren and Katie?
Katie Kinder (:Right, you're lifting up teachers. Sure, sure.
Katie Kinder (:Absolutely.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:together in my school. And if I did, what would that look like? And, and the answer is Darren and Katie don't know, because we're still working on that. But that doesn't mean we can't do it, we will do it. I think bringing culture first classrooms to your school is such a powerful step to to moving whatever needle you're trying to move. Again, it starts with culture. So maybe talk a little bit about what what's in your head on on how
Katie Kinder (:Yeah.
It's new, but we're gonna do it.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:how we might bring culture first classrooms to people's schools.
Katie Kinder (:Well, I would love to do, you know, coaching contracts with districts. And so then like we could think about the beginning of the year kickoff and how we can lift them up in that way. And then, you know, we go once a month and we it's based on their need. Like, what do you need to make sure that your kids are learning at high levels, that your teachers are happy, that we are doing we are relentlessly doing what is right for kids. And so we really could customize it based on the
need and I think that that's I've got a contract right now in Tahlequah public schools and I love them I get to go a couple of times a month and each individual school will message me and be like this is what we're working on this is what we need and then I just can like ideas and PD and you know classroom management here data looking at data here like where they are in their culture and so I think that that could be you know something really cool that you and I could
do together that you could you could grab the principals and the district leaders I could grab the teachers and and it could help get them to where they know they need to be.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a lot of power in not just having one person. I think there's a lot of power in not doing the one and done. I mean, you want Katie and I to come kick off your school year? Hey, we'll do that for you. But I think the bring us back and have us continue to work. I'll continue to work with the school and the district leaders. And Katie works with the teachers, works with the instructional coaches, and really kind of this big wraparound support.
Katie Kinder (:Absolutely.
Katie Kinder (:Mm.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:to really bring culture first classrooms deeply into your school and into your district. Yeah, I think that's something cool right there.
Katie Kinder (:Sure.
Katie Kinder (:Yeah, and I'm even, I'm doing some teaching.
Yeah, I'm walking in classrooms and teaching. I have done a handful of Socratic seminars in middle school and high school. I'm doing some ACT prep for Tahlequah High School right before the ACT. And I'm teaching their kids with these strategies that work. And so it's not like the PD person is like, you should try this and hasn't been in the classroom in 20 years. No, no, no. I will step in. And if we fall on our face, we fall on our face.
and we're gonna fix it and we're gonna go back in and we're gonna do it again. I that's what we do. so, and I feel like you'd be the same. I you could be a principal for the day and this is, walk the building with the principal and this is what I would do. would get into the classrooms, I would do this and this and that would be something that we could provide to. Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, absolutely. that's I mean, every, you know, every one of my districts that I work with, everyone my schools that I work with, when I'm there, we're not sitting in the office, we're gonna go get in classrooms, you know, if we need to visit, unless there's like a, you know, a personnel thing that they want to get my input on, we're walking and talking, we're getting in classrooms, because, you know, that's where the action is, that's where that's where it matters, right? And, you know, you can't, you can't build that culture first.
Katie Kinder (:Mm-mm.
Katie Kinder (:Wow.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:classrooms type of environment from your office. You got to get out and you got to get moving. so that's absolutely the case. So, so what's what's on the horizon for Katie? I mean, obviously, okay, we got the book, we just we just we've been talking about the book. And man, we could just keep talking about the book. I'm so excited about it. But what, what else what else is on the horizon for you right now? I know you are one seriously busy girl.
Katie Kinder (:Nope. Absolutely.
Katie Kinder (:Me too.
Katie Kinder (:Well, vice versa to you, sir. I am doing some speaking. I'm doing some conferences where you're going to New York next week for the Innovative Schools Summit, which that's a conference where we met, and I love them. So I'm gonna be in Nashville this summer and Vegas again. I'm coming up, I'm going to San Diego in a couple of weeks to do a big conference out there for private schools. And I'm doing their keynote and
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Nice.
Katie Kinder (:doing some breakouts and just, you know, loving the teachers everywhere. And I'm doing a lot of stuff for Montana, just getting out there in the world and loving the educators, keeping them in this noble profession because we need them. And that's something I really love too. Like I've got teachers all over the nation that will message me and say, happened today, what would you do? And it's an honor. I tell them, I give them my phone number, I give them my email address. They have me on social media.
I'm always like you can slide into my DMS and asking me anything and And they do and I just I find it to be an honor. I don't work for their districts I am NOT their PLC partner or their evaluator like I can literally be an island of safety and information for you and so come bring me your heart and you're sad and your and let's Talk about it and let's brainstorm together and let's do its best for kids. So that's what I've got coming up
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Nice, nice. I think that's awesome. I do. get in a plane in the morning. Well, we're recording this on a Tuesday. There's a big snowstorm coming through tonight, so we'll see. I I don't think it's going to be too bad. I might end up getting stuck in Chicago or something. Who knows? But yeah, headed to New York. Then, man, right from New York to Illinois to speak in a school on Friday.
Katie Kinder (:What about you? What do you have going? I know you're happening a plane tomorrow.
Katie Kinder (:Yep. Tonight.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:back to one of my Nevada districts the following week. Then another innovative schools conference in Orlando in early March or mid-March. And then, of course, North Carolina mid-level educator conference in Charlotte. I get to keynote this year, which is really exciting. And.
Katie Kinder (:Bye.
Katie Kinder (:No! And I don't get to go this year because I have a different gig, but I'm gonna have either Chris, Dr. Chris Culver, or Carl's Williams or both. They're gonna set up their phone live FaceTime. I wanna see it. I wanna see it. It's gonna be so good.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:That's awesome. Because the keynote that I'm going to do, I have to start building it and I need to get your input on this. But I am going to keynote our book that day. They are going to have the book on site. So that'll be the first time that that I think either of us will keynote this book. I know you'll you'll be keynoting it as well. But I don't know, I guess we got to get working on that too. So see, there you go. I mean, there's just always more.
Katie Kinder (:guess you need to... Friends, you need to know this too. If you're not like, you can't see it, that Dr. Peppered right here has my fake glasses sitting on his shelf. And so maybe when you're keen on me, you should wear them when you're talking about it. cause mine are... You'll just have them.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Should I wear them when I keynote? Yeah. Or I'll at least bust them out. Yeah, I'll at least bust them out. Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:Because I throw out fake Katie Kinder teal glasses wherever I go and of course Darren has son
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:marketing genius, by the way, this is marketing genius. Those of you who are just listening, we're talking about these these teal glasses that if you follow Katie on social media, you will see like, I don't even know how many 1000s of pictures Katie has taken with people who have put these glasses on but it is so so brilliant.
Katie Kinder (:Like I got people come into my sessions like, want the glasses. They start fighting over the glasses. And it's so funny. yeah, so you've got this keynote coming up. You could pop on the teal glasses. But I am going to have some of my people there. They're going to film it for me so I can see it. Awesome.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Right on. Yeah, absolutely. I'm looking forward to seeing obviously, you know, anytime I get to see Velvet, it's great to see him. It'll be great to meet Dr. Culver in person for the first time. Honestly, that NCMLE conference, what David James and Kim Lynch and the rest of the crew have developed with that conference is out of this world. And there's one heck of a crew that's going to be there at the end of March. So we're definitely going to miss Katie, but
Katie Kinder (:Yes.
Katie Kinder (:Bye.
Katie Kinder (:It is.
I have so much FOMO. Listeners, FOMO.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, and another one of our co-authors, Andrea Bittner, will be there. So another one of our contributors. So yeah, it'll be fantastic. it really is. It really is. So well, folks. Yeah.
Katie Kinder (:Such a great conference. Yeah, yeah. I'm not, friends, I'm not going because I have another gig on that day that collided with it, or I would be there. So as they're posting, because they're so good at posting things, and they're posting all of their people that are going, and you know, and I just have so much FOMO, I'm like, hi guys, like, I'll miss you.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:Yeah, it'll be a bummer that you're not there this year, but we're gonna see each other in Nashville. We'll both be at the Innovative Schools Summit in Nashville. And hopefully our time there will overlap so we can spend a little bit of time together and yeah, get another selfie and get to hang out a little bit. And I don't know, start talking about the next project that we're gonna work on. cause I'm sure something's coming.
Katie Kinder (:Yes.
Katie Kinder (:Yes.
Katie Kinder (:Absolutely. It's gonna happen.
Dr. Darrin Peppard (:So all right, Katie, thanks so much for jumping in and spending some time with me here on the podcast. Again, folks, the book is coming out super, super soon. We're really excited about it. It's going to be out in March. The full title is Culture First Classrooms, Leadership, Relationships, and Practices that Transform Schools. man, my amazing co-author, Katie Kinder, thank you for joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast.
Katie Kinder (:I'm so excited! Bye everyone! We'll see you soon!
