Episode 202: Fired Up Leadership with Dr. Frank Rudnesky

Darrin Peppard (: 00:01

All right, my friends, welcome back for another episode of the Leading Into Leadership podcast. This is episode number 202. As always, I am your host, Dr. Darrin Peppard, and I could not be more excited to share this conversation with you today. You know, if you've been listening for a while, you know that one of the things that we value most here is exploring innovative ways to lead with clarity, build strong relationships, and create lasting impact in education. And today's episode is a perfect example of that.

Now, before we dive in, I want to remind you about some exciting opportunities to connect and grow together. I am currently booking

speaking engagements for opening convocations, teacher and principal conferences, and leadership development workshops. At one of my recent keynotes, I had attendees laughing and crying, so much so that even the sound crew pulled me aside afterward to share with me how much they were moved. And if you're looking for someone to set the tone for your next event, inspire your staff, bring some joy into the room, I would love to be a part of that. Head on over to the website, roadtoawesome.net.

and learn more and let's start planning something amazing. Now, on to today's episode. My guest today is Dr. Frank Rudnesky, a remarkable leader, speaker, and author. Now, Frank and I go way back. We first met at the Jossens Renaissance Conference many years ago. And over time, our professional relationship has grown into a true friendship. Frank is someone I've always admired for his high energy,

his dedication to student leadership and his incredible ability to inspire others. You might know him from his books, Fired Up Leadership, 50 Great Things Leaders Do, Let's Get Fired Up, or from his workshops and presentations where he motivates everyone in the room to find their leadership spark. In this conversation, we're gonna be digging into the importance of creating leadership opportunities for students, the lessons that Frank has learned throughout his decades of experience in education and

Things from his newest book, Igniting Students' Passions, Empowering Lifelong Leaders, and Helping Them to Empower Both Students and Educators Alike. So grab your notebook because this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical takeaways. So without further ado, let's get into episode 202 of the Leaning Into Leadership podcast with my good friend, Dr. Frank Rudnesky.

Darrin Peppard (: 00:01

All right, my friends, welcome back into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. My guest on the show today, my good friend, Dr. Frank Rineski. I got to tell you this before I bring Frank fully into the podcast. Many years ago, when my school was going through a transition in culture, we attended our first Jocelyn's Renaissance Conference. And there were a handful of people that I remember meeting at my very first conference.

People like dr. Steve Wolf the very first person I heard speak I remember meeting people like Steve bowler but I very much remember sitting in the front row of a session with dr. Frank Rodnicki and listening to this guy just Go, I mean Wow energy like there's no tomorrow and I will say this because if I don't say it now I might forget to say it during the podcast

And I've told him this before, but over the years we have become really good friends. We are like brothers and it's an honor for me to welcome Frank onto the podcast. So my friend, my brother, welcome to the show.

Dr Frank Rud (: 01:15

Hey, thanks for having me. And wow, you gave the mini version of our first meeting and how those conferences go. But yeah, I mean, I feel the same way. There's so much going on. It's like you try to grasp onto a handful of people who down the road, they become like relatives.

Darrin Peppard (: 01:36

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, and then here not too long ago, I was in New Jersey and got to hang out with you on the boardwalk and your family and that was a pretty great time. So good stuff. So Frank, just really quick. I mean, I'm sure most people probably know who you are, but just give them the elevator version of Dr. R.

Dr Frank Rud (: 01:45

Yeah.

Wow, I don't know if there is an elevator version, you know what? I've been an educator for most of my life now. Started off like most people as a teacher, high school teacher, found my love for the middle school and became a principal and just became...

really engrossed with the possibilities that young leaders bring to the world. you know, 20 years, almost 20 years of being a principal met people like you and who were like-minded, not only thinkers, but doers. And that's where, you know, some of the people get lost is...

know, footprints or butt prints, you decide. So now I'm author speaker, I'm blessed to be all over the place and continue to write, to discover, and in search of my tribe.

Darrin Peppard (: 02:59

Good stuff, And coming to us from the Legacy Lounge in New Jersey, which is one of these days. I was even there and I did not get a chance to come back to the house and hang out and have a beer in the Legacy Lounge. So next time I'm in New Jersey, we're gonna make that happen. So let's do this. Let's maybe kind of dive into a topic I know that is very near and dear to your heart. Obviously we're both leadership people. I tend...

to lean more towards the adult leaders, you are very much about the student leaders. And I think that's something that often gets overlooked when we think about school culture. We think about developing leaders and maybe we think about developing teacher leaders or something like that. But I know that student leadership piece is such a big piece for you. without maybe trying to shoehorn you into one specific space by asking a question.

I'm just going to say student leadership, go.

Dr Frank Rud (: 04:03

Wow, it's a...

Leadership, student leadership is leadership. when I look back at my days in school, whether middle school, high school, it's that we were thrown in sometimes to leadership roles, but never really understood what that meant. a couple of decades later, the same thing as an adult thrown in to leadership roles, not understanding.

what leadership was. Matter of fact, the first class that I had that had the word leadership in it was when I was working towards my doctorate. Now think how absurd that is. you know, now we're leaders. We have methods of curriculum, methods of supervising, methods of methods, but nothing about leadership. So, you know, when...

Darrin Peppard (: 04:50

But you're right.

Dr Frank Rud (: 05:04

It's sometimes it's really simple as standing out in the hallway, greeting your students, positive greetings at the door. But when you're a 12 year old and Sister Marie Stevens comes out and say, you ever played basketball before? No. Well, you're captain of the basketball team. Okay. What does that mean? Oh, you are the president of student council. Okay, what does that mean? means.

Does it mean I'm in charge or how does that develop? So as I became an educator and pushed through my career, I started to have these light bulb ideas of common sense that while leadership is a lot of different things and it's not just for the top few, it's not just for the smartest or the best or the most gifted, but it's...

for everybody. It's a choice and one that starts with you. And I gotta tell you, over my career, I've interviewed over 10,000 students between the ages of 10 and 22. And over 95 % of those students, before they had leadership training, associate leadership with a position. But what blew me away,

was teachers of those same students also associate leadership over 90 % with a title or a position. And I gotta tell you that to me seemed absurd. But when I talk to people, even people I worked with, it's that mindset. So when I became a principal, I was on a mission that anybody that came,

through that door, across that threshold, any stakeholder and eventually any student had to have an offering of leadership. At least here it is. Now what are you going to do with it? And then you find out that when those kids find out, well it starts with me meaning themselves. You know that self-care component and that self-management, manage yourself, lead others, organization.

And boom, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and it's us to us. It's up to us, we adults, to create those opportunities and show those students what it is. Also showing the people that we work with what it is as well.

Darrin Peppard (: 07:47

So we were talking before we hit the record button about how so much of this sometimes sits in the lap of the leader. So the building principle at the district level or whatever. I agree with you 100%. Everybody needs to be given that offering of leadership and also taught here's how you go and do this because so many of us will go through life. I've told this story a bunch of times. I'm pretty sure I've told you.

I was a second or third year teacher when my principal tapped me on the shoulder and said, hey, you ought to think about a career in leadership. And I think that's the very first time anybody ever talked to me about leadership ever. I mean, you know, I don't know that necessarily my parents had that intentional conversation. I was never like, I probably wasn't even line leader. mean, not that, not that it wasn't there, just I never was given that opportunity. So

If I'm a classroom teacher, if I'm a building administrator, what I hear you saying is we need to find ways to offer leadership opportunities. But how do you do that? What are some ways, I know you teach this all the time, what are some ways that classroom teachers and school administrators can find intentional opportunities for kids to lead?

Dr Frank Rud (: 09:11

You know, one thing that you said that just resonated with me because it happens all the time is that your principal tapped you on the shoulder and said, you should think about a career in leadership. And my first reaction is, well, aren't you already in a career of leadership? You see, that's the mindset thing that we need to shift and shift happens. I think I could best answer that question from a 10 year old's point of view. I was hired.

to go out and speak at this upper elementary school grades five and six and Speak to you know do an assembly and work with their leadership groups and fight I found out that their leadership groups are everybody so walk into the school Walk through the metal detector beep and that was before I had the metal plate my arm walk through it again beeped again I Get around the corner. There's a ten-year-old

in a suit looks me in the eye puts out his hand and says Dr. R we've been expecting you

my mind was blown in the respect that I better hurry up and do my thing because they don't need me. They have him and he's only 10. So, and then he continues, Hey, Dr. R, I know you're busy, but do you mind if I show you around our school? The language daddy, not my school, our school. He dressed in a suit. He's 10 years old. So no one had to tell me.

Darrin Peppard (: 10:31

I... Yeah.

Dr Frank Rud (: 10:50

This school was a leadership school. No one had to tell me this kid was one of the school leadership ambassadors. No one had to tell me that there are leadership opportunities for everyone. So, wow, that was creative for him. So he takes me around the school. First, he takes me in the office and in the office on the counter was a bowl of bananas and a bowl of apples. So bowls of fruit like it was a five-star hotel.

So I jokingly said, hey, aren't there any mints? And he reaches around the counter and pulls out a bowl of mints. Okay? Then he takes me in the bathrooms. And in the bathrooms, he takes me to the boys' room and they have murals on the wall. It looked like a locker room, similar to something that we had done at the school when I was a principal. He points to the girls' bathroom and he said, we can't go in there, but I heard they have some really cool stuff.

in there and it's for girls but we're not going in. I said dude you're right we aren't going in. Then he takes me now the perspective of a 10 year old what are the greatest spots in the school he takes me to see all the murals in the school he takes me to see student artwork hanging in in the school and he imagine that so since then I got an idea from him that when I go

into schools and work with their leadership groups is take me to the five best places in your school because that's, you know, that's what I want you to do. Brag about who you are and what your school has to offer. So that has become a staple in my training because of a 10 year old. So those opportunities are out there. We just have to have a different way of looking at them.

from a student's point of view or from a colleague's point of view.

Darrin Peppard (: 12:53

I love that and I think that's something that's really important. It made me think of two different things. One, I was at a school. It's a school that I've been working with for a couple of years, but the first time I was there I had a fifth grader greet me at the door. Same type of thing. know, Doctor Peppered. We're excited to have you here and he introduced himself. He shook his shook my hand and he gave me a tour of the school and.

Dr Frank Rud (: 13:09

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 13:18

pointed out certain things and he was part of their lighthouse leadership team and it was really wonderful because just like the story you shared, this is something that you and I go in a lot of schools and a lot of times we go into schools and we might have to go find the office ourselves or we're speaking in an auditorium or something like that. We have to go figure out how to get there on our own.

It is those times when you get to a school and they have somebody waiting for you and they're going to greet you and they're going to give you a tour and that kind of stuff. But usually it's an adult. When it's a kid, that's a whole nother thing. It's a whole nother level. And it's just one of those things that, you know, leaders just think about this. There's so many things that you have people, adults do that kids could probably do and maybe even do better.

I'm sure that young man, his five favorite places or five best places in school might have been different than say, you know, one of the teachers might have said. And, you know, it was something we did as well with, having an ambassador program and having students greet your visitors at the door. Now we always used our career academy students, but I think it comes back to trust. I think

The example you just shared, that is putting a tremendous amount of trust in that young man. And it's not like you had an adult following him around. They just trusted him.

Dr Frank Rud (: 14:59

And as it should be. I mean, you can create these things. mean, the amount of things that we created because we needed to. Leadership exchanges, rotating the students through and leadership summits and bringing kids to other schools and bringing other schools to our students. Just it's...

The opportunity is there and then explaining to them, you know, this is what it means and it all starts with you. I may be the principal of the school, but look around, everybody is a leader in this school.

Darrin Peppard (: 15:39

Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's about helping them find those opportunities. And it's also about finding ways to ignite the passions that they have inside of themselves. And I know you have a brand new book that just came out here recently, Igniting Students' Passions, Empowering Lifelong Leaders. So excited for you, my friend. And your co-author, Beth Mooney, also a friend of mine.

and really excited about that. Let's talk a little bit about that. You were starting to share, before we hit record, you were sharing a little bit of kind of the story behind how it came about. I'd love to have you maybe share a little bit of that as well. Beth Mooney, such a wonderful, wonderful teacher, wonderful human being, and I'm thrilled for her that she had the opportunity to do this project with you. But maybe talk a little bit about kind of the genesis of that project.

Dr Frank Rud (: 16:36

Well, you and I share the value of amplifying other people's voices. know what mean? The people around this country are doing some phenomenal things and nobody knows about it. Not that they are up on their soapbox trying to announce it, but when...

you do go to these other schools and you see all these like-minded people. It's just, I'm always looking for these common threads. Well, what are some things that we do that are alike? What are some opportunities that we offer? When did that light bulb click and go up? So, you know, we put together a compilation with different authors from different...

different points of view and the respect that different types of stakeholders, administrators, students, teachers, et cetera, et cetera. And when you start thinking about some of those effects that have exponential factors, well, you know, maybe this one kid came back to visit you, but there were probably 100 other ones that wanted to come back and visit you. And I get a big...

big kick out of that, but when you think back on your career, you think about, well, what are some movers and shakers and difference makers that you had in your life? that's, know, basically we asked, hey, look, let's keep it short. was five to 1,500 words. The value of student leadership, tell a story, and what are your main inspirations? And...

It kind of got the juices flowing and and people and you think back on On stories you didn't even remember and when you read other people's versions of the stories you say wow That's almost exactly like something that happened to me 20 years ago and you see that yeah. Hey look, you know what this leadership this leadership thing has some value and these crossover threads are

amazing and what they were able to do is pay it forward and now they have stories so it's generational you know it goes i mean some of these stories go over several generations just because stories when you were young stories when you were in school now stories of people that you taught or came in contact with and you really are

I don't know if astounded is the right word but you value the opinion of the people that you've come in contact with over the years and and another thing is is this book that we came out with kind of walks the talk meaning all the proceeds go to a nonprofit and service service learning and servant leadership or a big

Component and common thread of everybody's stories in this book. So all the money anyway goes to a nonprofit in Atlantic City called the mud girls studios, which empowers homeless women specifically You know, they're geared towards women getting them off the street teaching them a skill mud girls is the clay, know, they make ceramics and resell their Resell their items and it's a phenomenal place. We could do a whole podcast on them. But that's how the book opens with the

website of this nonprofit that I've been working with for about seven years and coming full circle with being able to support them and what they do and show everyone else how important servant leadership is, which is one of the biggest common factors that we found in everyone's story.

Darrin Peppard (: 20:37

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's super powerful that you have done that and connected that to that nonprofit organization. I think that's absolutely phenomenal. I'm curious if, maybe to just put you on the spot a little bit, is there maybe one story from the book?

that just stands out or maybe just open the book to a random page and share one of the stories or a little bit of the story. Just give us a little flavor of what's in there.

Dr Frank Rud (: 21:16

I'm going give you a couple quick ones. First, a student that I mention all the time, Julie Lang, and you've heard her story, and she's just absolutely phenomenal. She's one of my former students at cerebral palsy, and she's a teacher. So that's kind of full circle. And she tells stories about her middle school days and how that inspired her to do what she is now. And she just recently got another job teaching.

Darrin Peppard (: 21:19

Okay.

Absolutely. Love, Julie Lange.

Dr Frank Rud (: 21:45

So good for her. So check out her. She's one of the 19 authors that's included in the book. So her story is absolutely phenomenal and how she teaches hope. And every time I think I'm having a crappy day, you know, I think about, well, geez, what would, what would Julie do? And there's Julie thinking, thinking, what would Dr. R do? So it's, it's kind of a crazy thing, you know, but that's intergenerational. Another story, I mean, one of the,

Darrin Peppard (: 22:08

Yeah.

Dr Frank Rud (: 22:14

One of my favorite stories is one that Beth Mooney tells about one of her former students and how, you know, when you're in high school, you get these kids that are hanging out in your room and you think they're knuckleheads. And it turns out, hey, guess what? They're not. And they go on to let you know years later how you inspired them. And because they were inspired by you, they go on to do some.

phenomenal things. They go on to follow their passion to find their purpose and it's stories like that throughout the book that it'll just it'll just blow you away when you read some of these stories and you see how connected everyone really is.

Darrin Peppard (: 23:04

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and you know, I mean, let's let's maybe just kind of spin off of that connected piece. So through you, I connected with Julie. And of course, you know, I have a former student who has cerebral palsy, Andrew Gallinger, who was having a bit of a tough time. And I connected him with Julie. This was a handful of years ago. And I know they have become friends and continue to support each other.

Dr Frank Rud (: 23:20

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 23:33

you know, kind of in their journey. you know, it's just, yeah, it's about relationships. It's about connections. mean, again, here we go. You and I are having a conversation and there's that word relationships. It's always going to come up when you and I are having conversations, which is really powerful. And I know one of our good friends, shared friends, Bradley Skinner is also a contributor in your.

Dr Frank Rud (: 23:47

Yeah, always.

Darrin Peppard (: 23:59

in your book and I can only imagine the stories that he shares. It's certainly somebody who has an unbelievable ability to connect with students. Just some really wonderful stuff right there. So I want to maybe pivot in a little bit of a different direction and talk about, you kind of hinted at it, but I want you to maybe share just a little bit more of some of the work that you're doing now.

Dr Frank Rud (: 24:04

Wow, yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 24:28

with schools. I know you are in middle schools and high schools and elementary schools, you know, all the time doing, you know, whether it's student assemblies or leadership activities. Maybe talk a little bit about what some of that looks like because I think it's really powerful work.

Dr Frank Rud (: 24:46

Yeah, well five years ago I put together fired up leadership and came out with five domains of fired up leadership one being you self-management organization and What was I think timeless about fired up leadership is that those same concepts I use with ten-year-olds that I use with 50 year olds, so Being a middle school principal for 20 years

and working with not only middle level but high school. And now I teach adjunct at a university, use the same concepts, use the same five domains. But I'll go to a middle school or high school and do what I call a leadership academy based on the five domains. So it'll be like a five hour camp sometimes some schools like to call it. we'll just, boom, we'll just knock it out all day starting off with.

a dance party, a three and a half minute dance party, tell stories, maybe end up with a service project at the end of the day, whether it's public service announcements or welcome sign Wednesdays, getting that going in front of their schools, simply as making a sign and holding it up. You are amazing, you are beautiful, you are worth it, et cetera. Honk if you love someone. And we'll go over the...

five domains, but the whole time we're doing connectors and team builders. We're mixing up groups, getting them out of their comfort zones. we want, you you want the students to work with people they've never worked with before. So we go across the age groups. I try to get, if I'm working with a high school, I try to get some middle school students there as well to connect with.

Role models, you know some students that will see the following year and try to get the adults involved as well so it Five hours goes so quickly because these kids are totally engaged in in leadership and learning that's fun and then if the school some schools That are with within driving distance. I have ten schools right now in New Jersey

that I go back and fine tune once a month. So I'll go back, maybe hit the leadership academy up in August, then September, October, during the whole course of their school year, I'll come back and do another mini academy, maybe a two hour lesson. And then meanwhile, they're engaged in doing things while I'm not there. And...

One of the things they do is become mentors for other students and I asked them to grab some of these other students and bring them to some of the things that we do. There's apathy everywhere, but if we can get people involved and I was asking a group of university students today, what's one thing you would tell your high school self? And the number one thing was get involved.

Don't just sit back and watch things going on. Step out of your comfort zone. Try out for that sport. Go join that club. Audition for the play. And even if you don't make it, you won't have that mindset years later of, I wish I would have. Because you did. Hey, we all have many more failure stories than we do success stories. And if you're not stepping out of your comfort zone or trying different things, you may never find

what your passions are. And that's part of igniting students' passions is to introduce them to different things, to take those kids so they not only see who they are, but see who they can become. And that sets that fire, that lights that fire. And that empowers them, hopefully, for the rest of their life and has that ripple effect.

Darrin Peppard (: 29:00

Yeah, absolutely, man. That's just, that's just absolute gold. I love that so much. We'll make sure folks that you've got Frank's contact information down in the show notes. So, so you can grab, grab him, reach out to him and bring him in to work with your kids in your schools. Frank, I'm not surprised. Time always flies when I have conversations with you.

But we are already at that point where I'm going to ask you the same question I ask everybody here on Leaning Into Leadership podcast. It's the last question that I ask. Again, it's the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. So Frank, what are you doing right now to lean into leadership?

Dr Frank Rud (: 29:41

I I think, you know, no matter how old you get, it's like you gotta keep pushing towards the end of that comfort zone. And your mentors, everyone thinks, your mentor doesn't have to be somebody that's just older than you or your age. Take on, be mentored by a young person at some point. Because whether it's playing a video game,

Hey, could you teach me how to play this video game? Can you teach me what the lingo is on social media? You'd be surprised how not only happy they are to do it, but how much you'll learn. So I keep leaning towards the end of my comfort zone. And I think that pushes me to do things that I never thought I was capable of and that I never thought I would be doing.

Darrin Peppard (: 30:32

Love it, man, that's awesome stuff. again, people are going to want to get ahold of you. I'll put it in the show notes, but just really quick, what's the best way for them to get connected with Dr. Frank Rineski?

Dr Frank Rud (: 30:42

Hey, you know, take a look at me on Instagram or Twitter, at Dr. Frank Rudd, on Facebook, all the social media outlets, or email me at frankrud.com, fireitupleadership.org is my website.

Darrin Peppard (: 31:02

we go. Awesome stuff. Man, as always, great to spend some time with you.

Dr Frank Rud (: 31:04

Don't forget man, all goes to charity,

hit this in your schools and get flared up people.

Darrin Peppard (: 31:09

Yeah.

There we go. Absolutely. We'll put links to Frank's books in the show notes as well. Man, as always, Frank, so great to spend some time with you, man. Thank you so much for joining me here on Leading Into Leadership.

Dr Frank Rud (: 31:22

Thank you for having me. Peace and love.

Darrin Peppard (: 00:01

All right, folks, I really appreciate Dr. Frank Rudnesky coming on the show. Again, somebody that I've known now for the better part of two decades and have really built a great relationship with. He's somebody I look up to, somebody that I lean into, that I trust. And I'm just so grateful I had the opportunity to share my conversation with him, with you here on the podcast. And now it's time for a pep talk.

And now it's time for a pep talk. So this week on the pep talk, I wanna talk about something that actually came up today while I was recording some podcast episodes. Most of my day today, I've actually spent recording podcasts for my show, but then also for shows of others that they're having me on as a guest. And one individual, Will Parker, who is the host of the Principle Matters podcast, he and I recorded for both shows, back to back.

And at the tail end of our conversation after the second recording, Will mentioned something about how we had both discussed reflection as we were talking on the podcast. And he actually said he's going to write a blog post about this. So I'm really looking forward to it. So I hope that that ultimately does come out. So it got me thinking about reflection. So in the pep talk today, I want to challenge you to find a method that works for you for reflection. A few that I might share.

I created the principals planner, a one week planning tool that has daily opportunities for reflection. I'll put that in the show notes and you're welcome to go get that. It's no cost. Just go down and grab that. It's a piece of one of the courses that we have in the principal academy, but it's something I think is really valuable. I've talked on the show before about balcony level leadership, about going and spending that time on the balcony and reflecting.

Will actually shared a protocol that I use that he and a mutual friend that we have, Frederick Buskey, used recently on a camping trip. Start, stop, continue, and consider. Whatever the method is that you use, make sure you are setting aside intentional time on a regularly scheduled basis to reflect on the work that you're doing. And don't just reflect on the negatives, also reflect on

those positives, find those key opportunities to celebrate as you're making your way through your school year, through your career, through your life. We have a tendency to overlook those celebration times. So let's make sure that you're doing that. So I want to challenge you as you go into next week, I want you to set some time aside very intentionally, specifically to reflect.

When you're finished with the exercise, if you feel like it, maybe reach out, send me a DM, send me a text message if you've got my phone number, send me an email, darrin@roadtowesome.net, and let me know what you took away from the practice of reflection. It's an important thing, folks. It really will make a difference on your leadership journey. Thank you so much for joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Get out there, folks, and have a Road to Awesome week.