Episode 203: So You Want to Be a Principal with Dominic, Todd, & Darrin

Darrin Peppard (: 00:00

Alright, everybody welcome into a special mid month edition of the leaning into leadership podcast. I am joined. I would love to say as always, but honestly, we took a two month hiatus. So usually I am joined by my good buddies, Todd Bloomer and Dominic Armando and we are back the three amigos are back in action mid month here in April of 2025. And honestly, we we had just hit their

just before we hit the record button, we were talking about this question that comes at all three of us, honestly, you know, hey, you were an administrator, you are an administrator, I got a question for you. so Todd, I'm just gonna throw that to you, talk about that a little bit, and then let's just open it up, let's have a conversation about everything to do with, hey, how do I go get that job?

Todd Bloomer (: 00:53

Yeah, no doubt. Good to see you boys. It's good to be back. You know, think Darren, you said it best. We're asked all the time, hey, you know, I got an interview. What advice would you give me? Or hey, I made it to the second round. What can I expect in the second round? And so really, that was the idea of tonight. Tonight's idea is for three guys that have, you know, got that call to say congratulations. You've been named principal of one school, two schools, three schools. And really just to kind of share some of that wisdom.

that we have. tonight the goal of tonight's episode really is to help you land that first job and really get you to sit in that big chair of the principalship. And I will tell you one of the best advice that I got was that first time you get that principal job, you close that door, you kick your feet up on the table and you say, I did it. And that was one of my favorite feelings when I became a principal was sitting there, I closed the door, I put my hands up by my head and I thought, I am the principal of this school. And that feeling was amazing. It goes away pretty quick if you all know what I'm

talking

about, it goes away pretty quick. But it was such a good feeling that I want you to be able to receive that. So, Darren, I'm going to share it with you. You have been a principal at multiple levels. You've been a superintendent for that. If I were to say to you, Darren, hey, I got an interview tomorrow, and I'm going to become a principal, I want to be a principal, what would you say to me so that I could land that job and be effective in the interview and get that job that I want and kick my feet up to say, hey, I got the job?

Dominic Armano (: 01:50

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 01:51

yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, it's so funny you talk about the kick your feet up thing because I did the exact same thing. You know, I interviewed on June 30th. I got the call later that day I was back, you know, we were actually out of town. was back in the office on June or on July 2nd. Close the door, put the feet up. Wow. I'm the principal. And then about 10 minutes later, it's, damn.

Dominic Armano (: 02:39

Thank

Darrin Peppard (: 02:41

I'm the principal. You know, I mean, it's like, wow, okay, that that went away quick. Yeah, it was a great 10 minutes of wonderful. I think I think if I were, you know, when I'm asked that question, and if somebody is like, you know, hey, I'm interviewing, you know, tomorrow or in a week or whatever it is, you know, the number one thing I would tell you is do your homework and not not the traditional homework that most people think of now do that. Road Awesome has an awesome book. It's on

Todd Bloomer (: 02:42

It was a great 10 minutes.

Darrin Peppard (: 03:12

on Amazon by Rob Breyer, taking the leap, interview questions, you know, all the things to prep. I would tell you, you know, really think about what's the current trajectory of that school? Like, what are they really working on now? Is there somebody that you know in that school? like in my case, Todd, I interviewed in the school, I was the assistant principal. So my homework was I started planning

what questions would I ask if I was sitting in that seat? Not if I was gonna interview, but what if I was asked to be on that interview team? What questions would I ask? And I started just writing those things out. And really think about, again, what's the trajectory of that school? What are they really focused on? What do they need the most? And just really think about that so that you're ready to answer those questions. So many people dive into

the data of a school and the state score of the school. And it's good to know those things, but they're not gonna ask you that. They already know that. They wanna know what are you gonna do? And you can't answer those questions if you haven't thought about where are they, where are they trying to go, and how do I plug into that? don't know, Dom, what do you think about that?

Dominic Armano (: 04:37

No, I think you're absolutely right. And, you know, I've done this twice. So Darren, like you, I was a sitting assistant principal and then moved up to the principal ship in that same building. so that was, I don't want to say that was an easy transition because we've talked about the leap over the grand Canyon. When you go from assistant principal to principal, even though you're walking, what? 10 feet down the hall to the new office. It's still a huge, you know, transition. but

You know, in that role, when you're in the building, you kind of have a sense of the community and you kind of have a sense of where you want to go or where you want to take it. Right. For me in that role, everyone knew me as the assistant principal. I had to redefine myself as the building principal. Right. And the community needed to see me as the principal, not as the AP. So that was different. In the new building that I'm in where I'm currently in.

I was new to the community, new to the district, new to the school. I'm just this outside guy from New York City coming into suburban Long Island. There was definitely some questions about, he understand the Long Island system versus the city system? What's he going to do? And that's exactly, you know, what I did is what you said is I talked to people and listened and understood and realized where they needed to go and then showed everyone how I was going to help take them there.

And I think that's the biggest piece, right? Is that you have to be able to understand and truly understand the community and truly understand what they need and what they want, and then be able to show people like, I got this, right? And they want that comfort and they want to know that the leader at the top is confident and calm and can get the building where it needs to be. So go ahead.

Darrin Peppard (: 06:26

Don't,

yeah, I wanna ask you about that though, because I think there's a fine line, right, that exists between, hey, I'm gonna come in and have all the answers, and hey, I wanna know where you are. What do you guys think about, like, when you're at the interview table? Because I've had people ask me this one. Like, is it okay to ask?

Dominic Armano (: 06:43

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 06:53

where do you see the school going? Or what is it that you want to see the school do? Not like, you know, what are your goals, that kind of thing. Not that kind of a question, but, you know, Dom, kind of like the way you were kind of phrasing that made me kind of think about, you know, having sat in that superintendent's chair and interviewing principals. I don't want somebody to come in and say, Hey, I'm Superman. I can solve all your problems. But like, I don't know, maybe.

you guys decide who goes first here, but just kind of react to that. Like, how do you find that balance so you're not coming off arrogant or cocky?

Todd Bloomer (: 07:29

It

is 100 % a dance that you take because you have to you have to convey I can do the job but you also have to convey that I have a servant and a humble heart I am vulnerable and I'm willing to learn the situation I'm willing to learn about the school you brought up Darren one of things I would tell any guest that that's listening that's doing this is whoever that superintendent is you do your research on that superintendent

Dominic Armano (: 07:31

It's difficult. Yes.

Todd Bloomer (: 07:55

Like not just a school district that you're gonna go into X middle school or at Y high school. Who is that superintendent? Are you willing to get in line and follow that superintendent wherever they need to go? Are they charting a vision that you align with? Because while I wanted, know, when I was applying for principal jobs, I wanted to be a principal, but it's more important that you like where you're gonna work. You can see yourself growing and you can see yourself advancing through the district, through whatever you have, based on the leadership that's already in place. So I say, you know, it's important to do the

research, look at the websites, it's important to know all that stuff, the culture of the school, talking to people that work in those schools. But who is that superintendent? Do you want to follow that superintendent? What is their social media platform? What is their trajectory? What are people saying about their leadership skills? Are they moonshot thinkers? Were they're planning tenures down the road? And you're like, let's go. This is where education is going to be. I want to be a part of that. Are you excited to want to work with that person? And then when you come into that interview, it is so important that you have

a humble heart and you convey, can do the job, but I don't have all the answers. I'm not perfect, but I try to be is the message that I really try to instill in that. And if you're not careful, you will rub somebody the wrong way to say, this guy's going to come in and think he can do everything and in year one, he's going to change everything and that's not the guy that I want. So it's really important, in my opinion, that you practice all of these answers like you're in the theater arts program, and you're in the school play. And maybe you run it by your wife for a good

colleague and say hey what do think if this is how I'm talking if this is my message am I on point do I need to pull it back because if you're just gonna go in there and say well in year one I'm gonna start this reading program and six months later I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna whoa wait a second that's that's not that the school is moving in the right direction and it's kind of going from there and so that's that dance you have to have I think that is so and I'm a terrible dancer I'll just say that

Darrin Peppard (: 09:41

Right, yeah.

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 09:47

There, and

there is a fine line between confidence and cockiness. And I'm gonna, and I'll be the first to admit this. You know, I was 28 years old when I was appointed as an assistant principal. 28 year old Dominic was extremely cocky. There was, it was simple as that. It was, I got this, I'm 28 years old, and it landed me in a lot of mess a lot of the time.

Todd Bloomer (: 09:53

Mm-hmm.

Dominic Armano (: 10:16

if that makes sense. Now 40 year old Dominic understands the balance, like you just said, that fine line between confidence and cockiness. And Todd, what you said about going in there and actually saying, I don't know all the answers, that's something that I pride myself on and that's something that I think my staff truly believes and feels and is often happy that I say that. At the end of the day,

what I've learned and I try to tell this from people that they've asked me about the interview process and being a principal, being an insisted principal, you know, I tell them, A, be confident, you know, don't fall victim to, can't believe I'm in the third round of the interview or I can't believe I got the job, right? Because that's gonna get in your head and we've talked about that before about how that's only gonna set you back. Be confident like, I have this, I know I can do it, but also be confident in, I don't know all the answers and I need to seek.

advice from the people that are in the room. And sometimes stepping into the principal role, you may be stepping into a building where half the staff or more than half the staff have been there for 25, 30 years. And they're the people you have to tap sometimes because they're the ones that know the community. And there's something to be said for, like you said, doing your homework and going in there. You have to be able to understand the community. You have to be able to want

to work there. I wanna say one other thing Todd that you touched upon that brought me back about eight, nine years ago or maybe even longer than that when I was in a course in New York City. It's called the Principal Pool. So you can be an assistant principal in New York City, no problem. But in order to qualify for a principal position in New York City, you have to take a course called the Principal Pool. And it's like eight or nine courses and then you get a certificate that qualifies you to be a principal. And I remember the professor in the course said,

on a scale from one to five, five being I'm so ready to be a principal, one being I'm not ready to be a principal, where are you? And it came to me and I remember saying, I'm like a three and a half, four. And she said, she had made a face like what? She goes, I've never heard that. She goes, usually people are one, I'm just doing this for the credits or five, I'm so ready to be a principal. What does three and a half mean? And I said, well, I'm an assistant principal and I love working with my principal. And it would hate me.

I would hate myself to go in there and say, hey, John, I'm leaving to go be a principal because we work so well together. And she said, then you're not ready to leave. And you brought me back to what you said about doing that research on the superintendent. That sometimes is more than anything else. You have to know that you're gonna feel comfortable working for him and for the people in that district because it is like a marriage. You spend most of your time there. I hate to say it. As much as we talk about work-life balance,

We've all been there, know, eight, nine o'clock, 10 o'clock at night, 11 o'clock at night at board meetings, right? You have to be able to know that you could work with those people. So I think that's very important, Todd, and I think that's a big piece of this.

Todd Bloomer (: 13:24

How about we spitball some ideas? Let's go around right now. Just, if I said, Darren, give me one 30 second thing, you would say, going into the interview, do this. What would that be?

Darrin Peppard (: 13:37

That's a great question. I would say you know do this and

Todd Bloomer (: 13:45

or

bring this or wear this. Like where I was gonna go was this. One of the things I look for, yeah, yeah, I'll give you an example. Maybe I set us up wrong for that. One of the things I look for when people come in, whether it be assistant principals or teacher interviews is how are you dressed and are you wearing my school colors? And I think that small, subtle touch shows an attention to detail.

Darrin Peppard (: 13:49

Yeah, okay, yeah, go ahead. You give us the example and then I'll kind of think that through. Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 14:05

Hehehe.

Todd Bloomer (: 14:10

that you have looked to see what my school colors are and you went out and bought a red tie or a black suit or a little bit of gray, you're not wearing my rivals green or orange into my deal, which somebody will notice. And I do think that is a small thing. So what is something like that? Something small that you could say might have them stand out in it. And I got three or four others if you want me just to keep going with them that I think would be good. Dom, do you have one that comes to your mind?

Darrin Peppard (: 14:21

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 14:36

Yeah, you know, it's funny. Like I look for, and I know this sounds silly, but I look for them referencing like our hashtag or our, you know, goals or missions or vision. I remember one of the best, in my old school, the hashtag was Steinway Swag. And I remember I was conducting an interview and the very last thing, the...

teacher candidate said before she left was, listen, just give me a shot. She goes, I'm going to bring so much Steinway swag to this building like you've never seen before. And I just lost it because I said, you know, that's someone that did their homework, did their research and it's subtle, but it means something, you know, especially when, you know, it sounds silly, but Darren hashtag wrote to awesome, right? That means more to you than just a hashtag on the internet, right? Steinway swag means more to me. Lincoln learns means more to me. Like

Todd Bloomer (: 15:20

Just.

Darrin Peppard (: 15:21

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 15:33

Those little things people put a lot of time and effort into. So to show that piece, it's similar to the colors, but it's silly, but it means something.

Darrin Peppard (: 15:38

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's good. I remember once we were interviewing a teacher for a social studies position and I was not conducting the interview, but it was in my office. So at the time I was the principal and one of my APs was leading the interview and towards the very end they asked the person, you know, why do you want to be here at this school? And he said, you know, I'll be honest with you, you know,

Todd Bloomer (: 15:41

to stand out.

Darrin Peppard (: 16:06

I was doing my homework and I was reading your principal's blog and I saw the article here, the blog that he wrote about every one of the teachers get business cards here. I want to be somewhere they treat me like a professional. I want to be here. And after he left, Annie was my assistant principal who was doing the interview. I'm like, hire him. Just do it. Just hire him.

Todd Bloomer (: 16:30

you

Darrin Peppard (: 16:31

I I listened to the whole interview, he was great anyway. He actually ended up being one of my daughter's favorite teachers down the road. you're right, Dom. I do that little bit of homework. think that makes such a difference. I'll give you one as well. You know, typically you go in and you sit down at a table, especially when you're an outside person, and maybe there's eight, 10, 12 people at the table, whatever it is, and they're going to introduce themselves, write their names down, like,

like the circle around the table, write their names down and call them by name. Because you're showing right there, I'm going to make the investment to get to know Dom as a person. I'm going to make the investment to get to know Todd as a person. And funny story, we were interviewing an assistant principal, I was still an AP at the time, and our principal's name was Randy. And this individual wrote

Dominic Armano (: 16:59

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 17:28

the names down. And when he came back around, Randy asked a question and he called him Ralph. And ultimately, we did hire this person. And and he is still to this day, a really good friend of mine. And I will bring that up every now and again, I will just call him Ralph. And he immediately defends why he called him by the wrong name. But it stuck with us. Right. So if you if you could just write their names down.

And then, you know, when Dominic asks you a question, you say, you know, Dominic, really appreciate that question. Or, you know, hey, that's a great question, Todd. Thanks so much. It just gives you that opportunity to take one step further and show the people skills that you have and that you're going to be somebody who can build relationships.

Todd Bloomer (: 18:14

So two parts to that, and one of them I was gonna talk about, but you touched on. I bring a notebook to my interview, and that notebook allows me to chicken scratch Dominic, Darren, Todd, so that, cause I may forget, I don't wanna call Ralph or Ronnie, or so, I don't want that. And so I bring that. I also think that helps with writing the question down. So in the event that...

Darrin Peppard (: 18:21

Mm-hmm.

Todd Bloomer (: 18:35

I get asked a question and I feel like I'm off track. I could reference back to that pretty quick with a key word or something that's in there. I think that's a really attention to detail thing that I would suggest for an interview. Second thing also I would say for an interview is how you answer questions. I would versus I did. And I think just those two phrases, well, if I'm applying for a principal job and I'm already a principal and I talk about things I would do, I would think, well, why didn't you do that already? You're a principal.

Darrin Peppard (: 18:47

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 18:55

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 19:05

Good point. Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 19:05

or if you're right.

so, but I did, you know, here's what I have, here's what I have developed. Here's what I've fostered. Here's what I've, here's how we collaborate or I would start a PLC. Well, why haven't you done that? And so I think just answering those questions with I would verse I have, and that's that you have to, you have to not.

You didn't do all of it, we start, our PLC, this is the structure of our PLC. This is the structure of our leadership meetings. This is how we handle this. So I think those two things are really good tips as you go into the interview to be able to prepare for. Write down stuff, call them by name, be ready to rock there.

Darrin Peppard (: 19:41

Yeah, yeah,

I want to run right back off of that too. Just a couple of quick ones. Number one, know, to your point, like, you know, what I would do versus what I have done. Don't be one to give away in an interview. If you've led something, own it. You know, don't, don't be like, you know, well, you know, that was really so and so. Look, if you've led something,

take ownership of it. You know, this is not the time to be humble. You know, I know it's hard, but you know what? This is not the time to be humble. And the second one ties directly to that. And this is for those of you who might be interviewing in the district or in the building that you have already been working. One of the hardest things to do, and by the way, it really is.

Dominic Armano (: 20:35

Yep.

Darrin Peppard (: 20:36

And I know Dom, you've done this, Todd, you've done this, you've interviewed within the same district. Do not make the mistake of assuming they know something you've done or know who you are. You know, we so often just assume, well, I'm the internal candidate, they know who I am. No, they don't. Odds are pretty good in the New York City system. Even with Dom interviewing,

Dominic Armano (: 20:57

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 21:05

in the same building. There were people probably in the interview who didn't know Dom. Todd, when you went from the middle school to the high school, I guarantee there were people who didn't know who heck Todd Bloomer was. Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't know who you are. I interviewed for the principal job. There were 13 people at the table. I knew every single one of them well. They were all in my building or in the district office. I still approached it as if nobody knew anything about me.

Dominic Armano (: 21:09

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 21:11

Thank you.

Darrin Peppard (: 21:34

Don't hold anything back. If you do, there's a good chance you might regret it.

Dominic Armano (: 21:39

So I have to agree with you. When I was interviewing for the AP position, again, 28 year old Dominic, the very last question, they said something along the lines of, so tell us something we don't know or tell us something. It was a brag question. I forget how it was, but it was please brag. And I didn't, right? So I kind of just like, man, you I'm good, you know, whatever, walked out, whatever it was, interview ended.

Darrin Peppard (: 21:59

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 22:04

And then a couple of days later, you know, I still got the job and I was speaking with my principal and he, and he says, you know, can I give you one piece of advice? And I said, yeah. He goes, that very last question. I go, yeah. He goes, they were looking for you to brag. He goes, you didn't brag. And I said, did I have to? And he goes, it would have been nice. You know, congratulations, you got the job, but like next time, like don't brag. So you're right. A hundred percent. Yes.

Darrin Peppard (: 22:19

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 22:28

Hey, Darren, have you seen scenario based questions for principles? I do too. And as I talked to people that were aspiring to become the principal, you some of them were taken back that the questions wouldn't be straightforward type questions would be role playing questions where you would get a scenario and be given five or 10 seconds to gather your thoughts. And then angry dad Darren Peppered is in your office.

Darrin Peppard (: 22:32

yeah, I used to use them. Yeah, I think they're great.

Dominic Armano (: 22:33

Mm-hmm.

Todd Bloomer (: 22:56

let's go, how do you handle this situation? And so one of the things that I don't know if any of you have a really good scenario that you would share, but I think it's our people that need to be out there to say, I need to be able to defend how a kid got cut from cheerleading and that mom's in there claiming X, Y, and Z was the reason they got cut, not because she's, you know, didn't have the skills. Please.

Darrin Peppard (: 22:56

Yeah. Right.

yeah.

Yeah, I'll jump on this one first. And I'll

tell you that we did that on steroids. So one year, this was my third year, end of my second year, I think, as the principal, and I had to hire two assistant principals. And I was restructuring for the coming year. One, I was actually going back to the system that my predecessor had used. So I was going to have one position that was discipline and attendance at the high school level, and one that was going to be curriculum and instruction.

Todd Bloomer (: 23:19

Okay.

Darrin Peppard (: 23:44

And so as part of the interview process, we had it in three phases. One phase was a tour of the building, which was done with a few of our junior students, like, you know, leadership students, along with our lead custodian and one of our secretaries. That's who gave the tour. There was the come sit, you know, in the office and we're going to, you know, hit you with 10 or 12 questions.

And then the third phase was you have 30 minutes, you're going to go in the office next door. When you wiggle the mouse, the screen will come to life. There are three written scenarios, choose any two and write your response. And what we did was one was very much a discipline situation. One was very much a curriculum school improvement type situation. And one was a little bit more of just kind of the generic any

Any day, my God, the wheels are flying off, the bicycle is on fire, average day at school. Our goal was one, how do they, to learn how they handle things under pressure. Two, what does their written communication look like? And three, where did they lean to naturally? know, typically they always take the, here's the bicycles on fire story. Everybody's gonna do that one.

Todd Bloomer (: 25:05

Good.

Darrin Peppard (: 25:11

And then they're either gonna take discipline or they're gonna take curriculum because we had both spots open. Where are their natural tendencies? And oh my gosh, we absolutely hit two home runs on our hires. 100 % hit two home runs. And the positions we put them in, those scenario questions were so great for helping us to say, yep, those are the right fits.

Todd Bloomer (: 25:38

It's neat to see Darren that you looked at which one they went to first or second. And that says a lot about the person and which one do they put more time into. I think that's really genius with those small attention to detail things that you learn through many, many, many interviews to figure out what is the right fit. So let me talk about that. All of us have probably not got the job that we wanted to get. We've all got rejected, right?

Darrin Peppard (: 25:48

Yeah.

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 26:04

How do you handle rejection? What would you say to someone that I put all my eggs in a basket, Blymer I bought the red suit, like I looked like a fool, but I bought the suit. Like I bought my book, I was ready for the scenarios. I didn't get it. Like what are you looking for Darren as a superintendent, if Todd Blymer is in your district and I got passed up and you see some potential in me, what are you looking for how I handle rebound? What are you looking for? And what would you suggest that I do? Do I reach out to you?

Darrin Peppard (: 26:33

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 26:34

talk to someone, what would you, how would you handle that?

Darrin Peppard (: 26:37

You know, I think as the superintendent, one of the things I would want is, I mean, certainly when I, when I come and sit down with you and by the way, superintendents, if they're in your district and you're not hiring them, go sit down with them. Don't send them an email. I mean, come on, you know? but I would want, you know, I expect that they're probably going to say, man, can you give me some feedback? That kind of stuff. And I'll probably give them some, but I would want, I would want to know you still want to grow.

And so reach back out to me and whether that's, you know, send me an email, hey, Darren, can I come spend some time with you or we're going to bump into each other at the district office or in your school and just say, Hey, you know, I was thinking a lot about what he said and here's kind of what I think or here's kind of what I'm wondering about. You know, I mean, can you give me, can you give me a little bit more because you know, the, normal thing that, people want to ask us, well, why not? Or, you know,

We're never gonna tell you what the interview team said in the interview team room. Nobody's gonna say, well, we didn't hire you because, right? But if you come back to me and you're genuinely like, how can I grow and get better? How can I fix this deficiency that I obviously have? I'm gonna do everything I can to help you.

And for that matter, mean, there were times, I'll be honest with you guys, there were times in my district where I was a principal where, you know, one in particular of the three superintendents I worked for, there were two or three people there was, she was never going to let them get hired as an administrator. No matter how good they were, for whatever reason, before I was there, there was some scar in the past, right? But that's where we're going to sit and we're going to have some really good conversations about

where do you wanna go with your career and how can I help you get there? And if you're willing to just say like two words to be in the hallway at some point, like, I wanna talk about this. I'm gonna do everything I can to help you.

Todd Bloomer (: 28:41

That's been my experience also with the leadership that we've had with the openness. If you reach back out, I think everybody wants to grow successful leaders. And I think everybody wants to be able to provide for them coaching and mentorship. And then I would share whatever they say, whatever Darren said to me, hey, Todd, you need a little more exposure at the the at the district level, or you know what, people need to see you as the principal, not the AP. Take that to heart and really find positions that you can get into that you can be seen in that light. Because if you

Dominic Armano (: 28:45

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 29:11

get feedback and don't do anything with it, you're not going to get the next job that you apply for. You know, and so you really have to take that. And sometimes it can be hard. Sometimes looking in the mirror is difficult. Sometimes it's a challenge to say, I need to do better at this because obviously, I think I'm good at communication, but they don't. I think I'm good at building relationships, but they don't. So I think they're watching how we take that feedback and how we go with that feedback moving forward.

Dominic Armano (: 29:15

Yeah.

I also think too, like I try and tell people, you know, it's easier said than done not to get discouraged, right? Because I think a lot of times, unfortunately, as we all know, the job is somewhat political, right? So internal candidates sometimes always have an edge and then, you know, you find out you're going up against an internal and all of a sudden you feel like, oh no, I'm not going to get it or what's the point and maybe you will get passed over. But I tell people all the time that interviewing is

just like anything else. It's like riding a bike. You're not gonna ride the bike the first time you get on it. You have to practice. And I tell people all the time, know, take the growth. A lot of administrators nowadays offer that, you know, feedback. Take the feedback and then just keep going, though. Don't let it discourage you because the more you do it, it's like practice. You actually get better at interviewing the more you interview. I've even said to people that have, you know, have gotten...

offers to come in and do a screening interview or something like that and maybe they might not necessarily want the job or maybe they feel like they're definitely not going to get it. I tell them to go for it because it gives them more experience on again interviewing. It is like it's silly but it is a craft and you have to get good at it. You're not going to be able to sit down on the first round and knock questions out of the park.

Todd Bloomer (: 30:56

Hey, I think Darren, you're probably the same way and Dom, you are, I'm sorry to cut you off. I think when I drive places, I'm not singing Billy Joel's Vienna as I'm driving. I am practicing questions that I think I'm gonna be asked. And I'm a big self-believer, know, manifest myself into answering the question correctly. And I will start with, hey, why are you the best person for this job? And I'll build upon that.

Darrin Peppard (: 30:57

Yeah.

No, you're fine.

Dominic Armano (: 31:10

Mm-hmm.

Todd Bloomer (: 31:20

come up with some random question. Talk to about your experience in a PLC. What does good instruction look like? How do you handle a parent that's upset? And I'll just talk it through. And at some point that sticks because if you just continuously discuss it, work it out, and word craft it, you're gonna be better and better. If you don't practice going into it, you're gonna go for three with three strikeouts and never get an invite back to what you have. You've got that opportunity. You gotta hit a home run when you're in there.

Darrin Peppard (: 31:42

Absolutely.

You do. You do. I think, know, listen to you say that when I applied for my principal position, again, I was in that building. I knew I was going to get an interview. I mean, I had zero question. I didn't know when it was going to happen. It turned out I had about three weeks, man. And I was in the middle of a doctorate program and I had to drive two hours to

to one of our locations where we would meet collectively across the state three times in that window of time. So I mean, I had a whole bunch of windshield time. had worked out in my head which questions they would, if I was sitting at the table, what questions would I ask? I had 12 questions written. I put them on note cards. I on the back had written, you know, here's what my answers would be.

I put them in the order I thought they should be in. Guys, honestly, I got to the interview. I didn't just have the questions right. I had the order right. I repped it so many times. I I walked out of that interview and looked at the next guy, you're getting ready to go in like, good luck, bro. Yeah, don't waste your time. Yeah, just go ahead and get back on the highway, dude. You're out. but I think, I think that, yeah, repping it, talking to the windshield, talking to your mirror, whatever it is, the more you practice that, the better.

Todd Bloomer (: 32:52

Don't bother. Yeah, don't bother.

Dominic Armano (: 33:02

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 33:08

What I'd like to ask Todd, and this kind of in a way goes to that, it's that I'm an internal candidate, but I'm an internal candidate from one area to another. So you went from middle school to high school. So this is a question I get from people all the time. I coached somebody last year about this time, who was a high school assistant principal trying to land an elementary job. And she was so afraid of

Todd Bloomer (: 33:21

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 33:37

they're going to just see me as a high school assistant principal. When you interviewed to move from the middle school to Churchill, what were maybe some things you did to prep and then Dom, I want to come to you with the same question, but now it's from, you know, you call it inner city to suburb. mean, good God, Long Island is still inner city. whatever. You don't know what a suburb is. Get out of New York for God's sake. But

Dominic Armano (: 34:00

Hahaha

Todd Bloomer (: 34:03

I know.

Darrin Peppard (: 34:05

But that's still that same from inner city to Long Island, right? I want to talk about that. But Todd, I want to start with you that move from middle school to high school, how did you overcome that barrier?

Todd Bloomer (: 34:19

Yeah, so I'll tell two parts. And the first part is general, what I would share. Good leadership is good leadership. Good instruction is good instruction. A good principal is a good principal. A good person is a good person. So whether that's leading sixth graders or leading 12th graders, I think good instruction, good communication, good clarity around what's important, way to build a ship, way to craft a vision, way to hire is good for no matter what, K to 12.

Second, I went from a middle school that fed 60 % into Churchill High School. So I had a little bit of a leg up because key community members, key parents, key students, I was transitioning. There was a group.

I hope they enjoyed it, but there was a group I had for six and a half of their seven years of middle school and high school experience. And generally it was good, but enough bloomers, enough bloomer at some point, right? And so I had those connections and I had those relationships, key PTA moms, families that have had three and four brothers and sisters that have gone through the pipeline of what we had. I knew the high expectations of the principal that I was going to be replacing because you know what? I replaced him at Bradley the first time I went there. He went to Churchill. When he left Churchill to go to central office,

replaced him a second time. So I knew those high expectations. But I had a really good friend that went from high school AP to elementary school principal in a different district. And I told him the same thing. Convey a love of kids. Convey a love of learning. Convey that you're going to create an atmosphere that is accepting and welcome and safe. And good instruction is good instruction. Whether it's, I don't even know what I'm gonna talk about, phonics or reading or Dom, you're gonna have to help me out with that for how to teach a kindergartner to read. It's all about

Creating an atmosphere where kids want to be there, parents feel welcome, and teachers want to work there. So I would tell somebody as you're transitioning and you're not in the high school realm but trying to go there, good instruction, good leadership transcends no matter what you do. And if you can articulate that, and that's practice, how do you get cleared? Darren, you're the guy. Clarity. Get real clear around what's important to you. And make those your two or three talking points you're going to talk about. And when you leave that interview, they're going to say, you know what? This guy's going to build

an atmosphere where kids want to be here. He's going to build an atmosphere where teachers feel valued and parents feel welcome and they want to come there. And you can answer every question with those three things and you've answered every question that you have with those three themes that you have. So that's what I would say. And then I got really lucky because I followed a group of amazing kids and this senior class is a group that I started with. I left them when they were in sixth grade that semester. So I saw them when they were 11 or 12, 18 now going to graduate. It's truly a

bucket filler to me to be able to see them walking the stage in five weeks. It's awesome. Fires me up. And Dom, I apologize to all the elementary folks out there. I don't know what I'm talking about to teach you to love a reading. But I know if you put a great teacher in every classroom, kids are going to learn, right? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Right?

Darrin Peppard (: 37:03

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 37:19

yeah, 100%. Yeah, seriously. I'd hire you.

Darrin Peppard (: 37:19

You sounded like you knew. You sounded good. Yeah. Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 37:27

Wow, that was a lot. All right, so I guess, you know, coming from the inner city to the suburban Long Island, I, you know, basically, it's a tough, that's a tough question. I showed them me. And what I mean by that is,

Todd Bloomer (: 37:28

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 37:50

Every, I'm going to be so stereotypical of people from Long Island, but you grow up in a town, you, for the most part, buy a house in that town, have kids and stay in that town. Maybe this is just across America, right? And you never really leave or there's like a statistic where, know, what are you 15 miles or not even 15 minutes from where you grew up is where you're most likely going to live, right?

When I had went to New York City, went, it was definitely out of my comfort zone and I still look back on it. And when I remember 22 year old Dominic getting a job in the city, I still look back at him and say, wow, like I never thought I'd leave my little hometown of Deer Park in Suffolk County ever. And here I was going to Queens every day and driving in and teaching there and all of that.

So I think for me when I made the transition and started interviewing on Long Island, specifically where I am, I had to show them me and I had to show them that I'm coming back home, if that makes sense. Like you said, Todd, I showed them the love not only of kids and how I want to help kids and support kids, but I also shared the love of my family.

Right? So every time I talked about my school and Darren, you remember me from PS 84. I love my school, right? I beam about my school and I took pride in my school because I built something so special there and I still look back on it today and I have pride in what I did there. And people would always ask me, you know, well then why do you want to leave? Because of my family. And I think that that's what it comes down to, you know, so.

Darrin Peppard (: 39:33

Yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 39:35

For me, was, yes, I did my homework, don't get me wrong. I read about the upper administration and I read about the goals and the initiatives that they have. I was very much in alignment with the district and everything that they're doing there. But it was showing them the real Dominic Armano, showing them that I'm a family man, showing them that I'm doing this not because of myself, but because of my kids and my wife.

wanting to be able to attend all school functions and still be able to get home and be the little league coach and the soccer coach. And I'm able to do that. So that was pretty much it for me. I mean, obviously I did all of the things that you're supposed to do on an interview, but I showed them the real me. I think that that was important for them. I think they needed to know what they were getting, you know, getting. And so I guess I'll just leave it there.

Todd Bloomer (: 40:26

Hey, I would say this, something else, and this would be like Darren is to Dom, I would say you'd agree with me. He's the king of creating a great culture on his campus. And like to follow Darren Peppered would be big shoes to fill. So I would tell you, I couldn't be Darren Peppered. I couldn't be Dominic Armando and you couldn't be me and I couldn't be any of us. And so when we're going into these interviews and we're talking, like we have to be careful that we're not trying to just replicate the person because we can't be that person.

Dominic Armano (: 40:40

Mm-hmm.

Todd Bloomer (: 40:56

And that's really important not to try to be that person. They're hiring us for our skill set and we want to take the great things that Darren did and build upon them. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? So we don't want it. But it's really important. I think that we understand who we're replacing. We don't try to be them and we have to be ourselves and family is so important to share with our staff and with the hiring community that I'm a dad also. So when that dad comes in to talk to me like I had one today that was concerned about

Dominic Armano (: 40:56

Yes.

Yes.

Todd Bloomer (: 41:26

about his kid, we've all been in that role before. We've been concerned dad, scared dad, worried dad. And to be able to convey that, build that relationship, builds that trust that we want to be able to have with them. And so I think it's so important that we understand who we're replacing. We can't be them. And we also let the interview committee know at football games, my kids are coming on the sidelines. Darren, your daughter danced. You were with your daughter and her friends. And if that's not okay,

Dominic Armano (: 41:33

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 41:52

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 41:56

can't

do this job because I'm going to give you 18 hour days on Friday if my son is carrying the football out as an eight year old on the field to give to the referee in between quarters or something because that's who we are and I think parents, well not parents, but people that do that interviewing they want to know you're a family guy and Darren when you get superintendents you probably there's a family at least in Texas there's a family component interview they want to know your wife and they want to know your family the board wants to know who is we're investing in you.

Darrin Peppard (: 42:22

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 42:26

And we want to know who your daughter is and son is and wife is and what the is that a good fit for our town? And so I think Dom you hit it on the head talking about the love of Little League and wanting to be a part of communities and being a dad is so important. Just so important.

Dominic Armano (: 42:39

You know, it's funny you said that.

I think, I don't know, 95 % of the first question is tell us about yourself, right? And I was on an interview one time and they said, us about yourself. And I said, well, I said, I'm a father of two. I said, you know, my daughter is six, my son is two, you know, my wife is a teacher. And then I was told by someone on the committee later on that I was the only one that mentioned their family. Most people...

said, I've got a master's degree in this and I do that and I do that and I graduated here and did that. And that person told me like in that moment, I was like, yep, he's going right here to the next round. You know, it was just like, because this is who I am. It's more than just the master's degree or the papers that you hang on the wall.

Darrin Peppard (: 43:18

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, but you're right. mean, 90 % of, probably more than that, about 98 % of the interviews that I sat on, that's, you know, that would be very abnormal. It was the, you know, yes, I've done this, I've done this, I've done this, this is where I went to school, yada, yada, yada. And I mean, I've even had those, those interviews where, you know, I'm the interviewer, you know, as the principal or as the superintendent and somebody at the table leans over to me and says, you know, like,

Dominic Armano (: 43:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 43:53

we ask if they're married? You know, like, well, I mean, legally, no, we can't ask that. But when you just come right up front and include, this is who my family is. You know, this is this is what I'm about. Then number one, yes, you you're telling us this is somebody who is about their family, not just about the work. And two, I mean, you're

Todd Bloomer (: 43:54

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 44:21

answering so many of those questions that people always have when they're sitting there at the table, like, know, does this guy have kids, you know, or whatever, right? So I think that's a huge deal. I think that's, mean, could, guys, we could go on and on and on and on and on. I mean, this is something we could riff on for another three or four hours, but we're already 45 minutes into this right now. So I actually think this is a good place to kind of wrap this a little bit, right?

Todd Bloomer (: 44:36

We could.

Darrin Peppard (: 44:49

There's so many things, if you're getting ready to sit down at an interview table to interview for a principal job, an assistant principal job, a superintendent job, a district level job, we've given you a lot of things to think about, but wrapping up with the don't forget about you are more than just that job. Don't forget about the family side.

Dominic Armano (: 45:10

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 45:13

the who else put you in that chair. It isn't just you that has put you in that chair. And I think that's really important. maybe let's, for this month, maybe just a final thought that you guys have. Dom, I'll go to you, then Todd, then I'll wrap this thing up.

Dominic Armano (: 45:34

You know, I think, you know, Darren, you did a great job wrapping it up. And I think what I'm going to do is I'm going take a little spin on this to close. And I'm going to say, just be ready for the curve ball question. Right? So you're laughing. I'm going to share two that I've had in my career. I was interviewing to be a teacher and the assistant principal said to me, I'm going to ask you an outside of the box question.

If you were a monument, what monument would you be in? Why? Okay. I'm not going to go into my answer because it was long winded, but it was great. It tied into the Yankees and I got called back to the second round. And then the other one was most recently the board president just stared at me and goes, I'm 90%. Give me the 10. So just be prepared for those curve ball questions.

Todd Bloomer (: 46:08

cheapers.

Thank

Let's go.

I like that question. I like

Darrin Peppard (: 46:32

Be the closer, be

Todd Bloomer (: 46:34

that. Mariano

Dominic Armano (: 46:34

Just be prepared for those questions.

Darrin Peppard (: 46:34

the closer. Mariano Rivera, let's go, yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 46:35

Rivera, here we come. Yes. Yeah. I love that question. I'm 90%. Give me the 10%. Like, give me your sales pitch. that's your opportunity. Dom, you walked out the first time without bragging. That's your opportunity to say, let me seal the deal here. I'm your guy. I think that's absolutely amazing. You know, I would say, and Dom and Darren, we kind of wrap up.

Dominic Armano (: 46:39

That's my final thought.

Darrin Peppard (: 46:41

That's fantastic.

Dominic Armano (: 46:52

Yeah.

Todd Bloomer (: 47:00

You know, do you want to be a principal? Do you want to be a principal only in certain areas? Do want to be a principal only at certain levels? Like who are you as a leader? And that may dictate jobs that you apply for. If you're saying I'm only going to be the principal of Churchill High School, well, you're waiting until Todd Blumer leaves. If you're saying I want to be a high school principal, then in your district, if a high school opens up, you need to apply for it. If it's a challenging school, you need to apply for it. If it's a fluent school, you need to apply for it. Don't cherry pick jobs in your district that you apply for only those jobs.

I think that gives people sometimes a negative feeling about you. you're only good enough to apply on this side of town or that side of town or why not this job. And then lastly, I would say this, this is really harsh and a really good mentor shared this advice with my buddy and I at one point. If you're not getting the jobs, look in the mirror and figure out why and either get better or find a new district to work in. And that was really harsh to hear, but that's what we needed. Like you're getting passed up for a reason. Figure it out.

fix it and if you don't get the job then sometimes you gotta pick your ball up and go play somewhere else. And so I would tell you if people are passing you up there are plenty of jobs out there you may have to drive 45 minutes an hour you may have to commute if you want a job they're out there.

And we need good people to take these jobs on because school leadership is such an indicator of school success and student success. And we need strong leaders to be out there. So if you want it, I'd say go for it. And I would say reach out to a guy like Darren, reach out to a guy like Dom or myself. We'll help coach you through it. We'll help coach you up or find somebody that you feel confident in and go in and really ace that interview. Let's take care of business. Like this is game time for us. Let's go in and, you know, hit that home run. You know, Darren, next year, me and you,

and Denver Broncos. I'm coming to Denver to see that. Let's go. Let's go. Dom, we need to get you coming, Yeah, we don't... It'd be beautiful. Dom, we're going up there. I don't know if you're a Giants fan, Dom. Are you Giants fan?

Darrin Peppard (: 48:46

Giants in Denver. Yeah, and it'll be in Denver. Let's go. Hopefully, hopefully it's not like in November or December. Hopefully it's in like September, October when it's nice. Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. So

Dominic Armano (: 49:01

Yes and no. I'm not really a football guy. I'm more of a baseball guy. I'm kind of living my element right now.

Todd Bloomer (: 49:03

Okay. Okay.

We would love to have you join. That'd be fun. Yeah. Let's go.

Darrin Peppard (: 49:08

There we go. Well, we'll bring Dom along and he can be our driver. So there we go. That's what we need. yeah.

Dominic Armano (: 49:11

Sounds good. I'm in.

Darrin Peppard (: 49:14

So my final two thoughts are these. One, to kind of build off of something that Todd just said, but that whole, if you're not getting the job, you got to look in the mirror. But also sometimes you got to think about how do you react? I was in a school not too long ago and an individual who works within a particular building.

has gotten passed over a couple of times. And that individual has gone to social media to blast administrators, to blast the board. And then the next year comes around and they apply again. And same thing happened. Well, here we are on year three and this person is applying for positions still in that same district. Do you think they're not aware?

Todd Bloomer (: 49:44

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 50:06

And are they really going to be willing to put you in a position where you're going to deal with somebody angry? Are you going to react in a good way? Are they going to really put you in a leadership role? You have to think about your behavior and only you can change that behavior. Only you can fix that behavior. So if you're somebody who has made the mistake of reacting the wrong way, you can't undo that, but you can go and fix it.

And so really think about that. And the second thing I will share with you, this is my final wrap up thought. It is the middle of April and as we're recording this, my Colorado Rockies are two and eight. They are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs at this moment in time. They are that bad. So they are literally the only team you can look at and say, I guarantee they're not gonna get better. They're just not gonna get better. know, the Detroit Tigers are struggling right now.

Todd Bloomer (: 50:46

There you go.

Darrin Peppard (: 51:03

I got a great pitching staff. They're going to be okay. Right? I mean, you know, and the Dodgers and the Padres are not going to go undefeated. They're trying, but they're not going to go undefeated. But the Rockies, they're going to finish last. I promise. So that is my final thought for tonight, folks. I will still root for my Rockies, but wow, they're terrible. They're just terrible.

Todd Bloomer (: 51:05

They do. They just blank the eggs.

Dominic Armano (: 51:06

They do.

Todd Bloomer (: 51:27

Baseball is such a long season when your team is terrible. It's 162 games of misery.

Darrin Peppard (: 51:31

my gosh. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I'm like, when does training camp start? I can't wait. When does training camp start? Like we haven't even got to the Masters. This is Masters week and we haven't even got

Todd Bloomer (: 51:39

Haha, let's go!

Dominic Armano (: 51:41

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 51:47

Yeah. Yeah. NFL draft just a couple weeks away. yeah, we'll start. I'm already focused on those things because the Rockies are eliminated at two and eight. So there we go. folks, thank you so much. Yeah, this was so much fun, guys. Always fun hanging out with you guys, folks. Thanks so much for listening to us and tuning in to us here on the Leading Into Leadership podcast. Until next time, folks, get out there. Have a road to awesome week.

Todd Bloomer (: 51:48

NFL draft too, what, a week, two weeks? That's exciting time.

Thank

Hey, you guys are the best. This is awesome.

Dominic Armano (: 52:14

Bye everyone.

Todd Bloomer (: 52:14

Adios.