Episode 207: Elevating School Leadership: A Conversation with NASSP CEO Ronn Nozoe

Darrin Peppard (: 00:00

All right, my friends, welcome into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast where I help school leaders. No, no, no, no. That's not what I want. Let's try it again. All right, my friends, welcome back into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast where I help leaders and leadership teams gain clarity, get in alignment, and be intentional with their work so they can stop reacting and start leading with purpose. Now, you might be getting ready to plan a big event, and that could be a back-to-school convocation.

a leadership kickoff, district-wide professional development, maybe even some leadership training within your sales or marketing team. If you are, consider bringing me in to do some speaking and some support. I bring a lot of energy, real stories from the trenches, and strategies that will leave you and your team inspired and ready to lead. Don't wait. Dates are filling up fast. Head over to roadtoawesome.net, click the Contact Us button, lock in your date today.

And don't just take my word for it. Let me share with you just a couple very quick testimonials from a recent keynote that I gave in the state of Montana. Travis says, boots on the ground, real actionable ways to focus on your leadership practices and to find your stride. Julie said, Darren's energy and insight is so inspiring. He has so much awesome to share. And then finally, Amy said,

Wonderful, practical, insightful. I'm looking forward to putting everything I learned today into practice. Again, get over to roadtowesome.net, click the contact us button, or just shoot me an email, darren at roadtowesome.net, and let's talk about your upcoming event. Now, let's get to today's episode. Today on the show, man, folks, this one is really special to me.

This is one I'm really excited about and I'm truly honored to welcome Ron Nozoway, the Chief Executive Officer of NASSP, the National Association for Secondary School Principals, into the show. Ron is a lifelong educator and a passionate advocate for school leadership. And in this conversation, we explore what it means to elevate school leadership in a time of constant change. From his journey as a principal and teacher in Hawaii to leading at the national level,

Darrin Peppard (: 02:24

Ron shares real insight into how we support principals, the challenges new leaders face, and why deep listening and authentic connection matter more than ever. You'll also hear us talk about the NASSP's Principal of the Year program and their upcoming United Conference this summer, which is a powerful opportunity for school leaders across the country to learn, connect, and lead together. Now, let's dive in with Ron Nozowe.

Darrin Peppard (: 00:00

All right, everybody, welcome back into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. My guest on the show today is Ron Nozoe Ron is the CEO for NASSP. And I will tell you back into my time as a high school principal, being a member of not only my state association, but also of NASSP, having an opportunity to advocate for

for what we see as needs for our schools as administrators to build that network with other administrators around the country. ⁓ Just such great work ⁓ happening from NASSP and certainly with Ron as the CEO. So Ron, I'm excited to have this conversation with you today. Welcome into the podcast.

Ronn (: 00:48

Thanks Darren. ⁓ Thanks for having me and really, know, of course shout out to you. ⁓ It really warms my heart anytime I see real school leaders leading professional learning for real school leaders. And so, you know, of course you're not the guy to talk about it, but congratulations on your being the state principal. It's Wyoming, right? You're the state, the principal of the year. And of course. ⁓

Darrin Peppard (: 01:10

Yeah.

Ronn (: 01:14

all the work that you've done you did then and the work you're doing now. It really is a great thing when educators are leading professional learning. So keep doing the great work you're doing. Thanks for having me your show here.

Darrin Peppard (: 01:28

Yeah, man, I really appreciate that. ⁓ And know, kind of an interesting little story. I'll share this story with with our listeners. So you and I actually met on an airplane and we're both on our way to Montana. I was on my way to keynote a conference that you were coming to attend and of course, represent with with an ASSP. And ⁓ certainly, I don't know, I guess this is on me. I should have known ⁓ that that you were who you were.

Ronn (: 01:39

That's true. That is true. That's true.

Darrin Peppard (: 01:56

when we were sitting next to each other on the airplane. you know, certainly since then, we've had a chance to have a couple of conversations and that kind of stuff. you know, I guess it's it's interesting, you know, you ⁓ you really get to see somebody who for for who they are when you meet them on an airplane and, ⁓ you know, sitting sitting next to you briefly that was ⁓ definitely showed me that you are, you know, quite a gracious human being. so so let's do this just really quick for folks who maybe don't.

Ronn (: 01:59

I see her.

Darrin Peppard (: 02:25

don't know you or ⁓ maybe don't know about your background, maybe share a little bit of kind of your journey that has led to where you are right now.

Ronn (: 02:33

Sure.

Well, I would imagine like most of the folks tuning into this podcast, like all y'all, I'm a lifelong educator too, born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii. I started my career as secondary language arts teacher, taught every grade from seven to 12. And then like everybody here on the show was dragged into admin by a principal who...

I don't know what she saw, but she saw something in me that everybody can relate to. Everyone that's tuning in can relate to this. Tapped on the shoulder or dragged into the office by her to do some temporary assignment and then ended up as assistant principal, ⁓ Then I served as the, in Hawaii we call them, the district superintendents in Hawaii are called complex area superintendents.

So I was a complex area superintendent for a bunch of years and then ⁓ the state deputy, which in Hawaii, being one of the only two unitary systems in the country, ⁓ you know, we're a small state, ⁓ but a fairly large district, if you think of us as also an LEA. So we are at the time, I think the ninth largest school district. So I served as the deputy superintendent and chief academic officer of the Department of Education then.

Then spent some time at the US Department of Education and then entered the nonprofit space ⁓ at ASCD for a bunch of years and then wasn't looking for a job, but the NASSP ⁓ recruiter came, the person that was hired to do the recruiting for NASSP came calling and for me, anytime I get back into the mix with principals and assistant principals, it's always a good time for me. So that was a...

you know, really a no-brainer and turned out to be just an incredible ⁓ honor and opportunity to be in the mix with school principals and assistant principals and of course our honor society and student council students. So that's the journey, you know, in a nutshell.

Darrin Peppard (: 04:39

Yeah, that's that's outstanding. So so man, I want to go back ⁓ to the very beginning. So you start as a secondary language arts teacher. ⁓ Man, if you go back, so I was a secondary science teacher and like you, you know, taught middle school, Dan taught high school. And man, I'll tell you what, I know, if I were to go back to the very beginning and tell myself, hey, here's what here's what lies in front of you. I would have just laughed. Right? Yeah, exactly. Right.

Ronn (: 04:48

Yeah, yeah.

There you go.

Darrin Peppard (: 05:08

So, I mean, like, like, what would what would that conversation be like if you were to go back to, you know, ⁓ rookie Ron Nozoy as as a language arts teacher, man, what what would that conversation be like?

Ronn (: 05:22

Man, I, geez, what would I tell myself back then? Well, while I'm thinking about it, first of all, shout out to science teachers. ⁓ You know, middle school team, my best partners were, of course, the science teacher, guy that I, he was in seventh grade, I was eighth grade, and all the kids that came up through him, was an amazing teacher. All the kids that came up through him knew scientific methods, so when you flip those kids into language arts and essay writing,

These kids knew how to organize their thoughts and they knew how to think through stuff and they knew. So, you know, shout out to the science teachers. Cause without you guys, that, you build a strong foundation and critical thinking and problem solving is very helpful to the language arts teachers. So.

Darrin Peppard (: 05:59

Right on. Right on.

There you go. See, scientific method

is worth the time. Science teachers, keep doing it. Keep doing it.

Ronn (: 06:08

It's hey man.

I now what would I you know what I would tell myself actually was what my the same advice that my dad gave me. He said you know in Hawaii we have our own version of English. It's called pigeon English which is a shortened and my cat my dad would all who also was a principal ⁓ teacher and principal and all that football coach. My dad told me before I entered the profession you son you remember no kids no job.

You remember that. Don't ever forget it. And so, you know, my mom was an elementary teacher. you know, hers was like, it's always the adults fault because, you know, she taught little kids, right? So, you know, the kids come in, it's not their fault if they don't get it. It's the adults fault. Well, my dad was always remember no kids, no job. So I think I would tell myself to remember why you're there. Like if you're not doing this for kids, then you shouldn't be doing it.

Darrin Peppard (: 06:50

Right.

Yeah. No, I think that's, that's great advice right there. And I think that's something that we all maybe sometimes need to take that little pause, jump up on the balcony and remember, you know, Hey, we're here for them. Right. You know, I was having a conversation. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, well, I was having a conversation, I think yesterday with somebody, maybe the day before. And, you know, the big thing that, that she was talking about was the leadership turnover that she is seeing. So she does work similar to what.

Ronn (: 07:13

Ha!

Not rocket science, but you know, it's pretty true.

Yeah. Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 07:34

what I do. And so

Ronn (: 07:35

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 07:36

much of the leadership turnover she's seeing are, are, you know, those, those leaders are moving on or being told to move on depending on the situation. But it's always adult centered issues. It's not kid centered issues. And, you know, we tend sometimes to forget that, you know, the conveniences and all that kind of stuff for the adults, I mean, ultimately, it's about it's about kids. That's why we do the work that

Ronn (: 07:49

Right. No. No.

Darrin Peppard (: 08:04

that we do. so I want to kind of maybe branch off of that and specifically talk about leadership. I mean, it's not every day folks that I get to sit down with the guy who's calling the shots at NASSP and working with so many leaders all over the country. And so I want to dig in a little bit around what you are seeing and what collectively NASSP is seeing in terms of

Maybe the state of educational leadership. You know, among the things that I believe is that the leadership pipeline isn't empty. I think people are moving through the leadership pipeline maybe a little faster than they used to. So maybe they're a little bit less prepared, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to throw that over to you and have you talk about what do you see,

Ronn (: 08:51

No, I mean, you're right on target, brother. I mean, you...

First of all, I'm seeing what you're seeing because we happen to be fortunate enough to see schools and districts and educators in different contexts all over the country. So when you have that experience, you realize that we're a lot more similar than people think. Even though every state has its own approach, every local county has its own approach. ⁓

The educators that you and I know and love and respect all have the same orientation, right? They're there for kids and they're there to support the people who directly support kids. you know, I'm sure we've said this, you know, it comes in waves and educate, my God, we've never faced anything like this before. ⁓ But, know, through all of it, what I've seen and what I'm so thrilled about is that educators today, more than ever, educators are straight up heroes, man. They put up with...

not the best working conditions, they put up with a lot of swirl going on around them, they're carrying the weight of their students and their students' families and their own families. Education, I mean this broadly, mean anybody who's working in a school, whether you are one of the support staff, or the custodial, or cafeteria, or office staff, super important, paraprofessional, super important as you know. ⁓

or actually a teacher or an assistant principal on the campus. These folks are heroes, man. In today's world, to be able to give others, other people's children or treat other people's children as if they were your own while all of this stuff is going on in the world, takes a lot. so, hats off to all of the educators that largely define who are tuning in because I, yes, it's complicated and it's difficult, but

I wouldn't want to do it with any other people because, you know, it's always us, right? At the end of the day, it's always us. As everybody has the luxury of throwing rocks at the bus or whatever, you know, whatever the adage is, you know, our people always are the ones who got to hold it together and keep it together and put on a happy face and go and make sure that school is the best place it can possibly be for kids. And so I'm very proud to be associated with that.

Darrin Peppard (: 11:15

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, and I think I think what what what I see a lot ⁓ are and let's be honest, right? I mean, you did the job to you're not ready to be a principal when you become a principal. I don't care. I don't care who you are. Right. I mean, it's until you do the job, you're not ready. But I think there's certainly a level of not quite ready versus really not quite ready. And

Ronn (: 11:25

Yeah.

No, no, there's no such thing. No, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, no, you're right.

Darrin Peppard (: 11:44

You know, I certainly see more and more and more of that. I'm curious. mean, obviously you have a lot of opportunity. You know, you have, you guys host the state principal, state principals of the year, the state assistant principals of the year. You know, you mentioned stuff with national honor society and all of that kind of stuff. What are maybe some things that you're hearing from, from principals, from assistant principals that are challenges that maybe they didn't face?

Ronn (: 11:56

Yeah. Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 12:15

10 years ago or something like that.

Ronn (: 12:16

Yeah.

Well, know, social media continues to be one of the biggest challenges people face because of the exponential nature of how, you know, messages get out. Like, so, you know, when used for good, it's great. Right? It's an effective communication tool, can be tremendously engaging and powerful. When used for not good, not great.

I hear, I see and I feel a lot of our members dealing with the use for not great, impacts of the use for not great social media. So that's one of them. I think another thing that is very different in the, you spoke about earlier is this very rapid progression. Back in the day when I was coming up, there was time to develop.

You you know it, we were talking about this before. People say, you know, that first year you just listen, don't do anything, just, you know, just observe. You know, that's like the first minute now, like, know, hey, right back, you gotta get right, right, jump right into it. So the time of it is, is much shortened and much condensed. So, you know, we talk about this, ⁓ the phenomenon of new, new, new and new. So, you know, they're, they're.

Darrin Peppard (: 13:13

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right.

Ronn (: 13:37

School boards are changing, so there's new superintendents, right? New superintendent comes in, there are new principals and assistant principals, new central office staff. And then, you know, the principals are moving up quickly into superintendent or central office roles or retiring, so there's, you know, new principals and then new assistant principals. And then, you know, the teacher workforce is always a challenge to staff, as so is the, you know, the classified staff. There's always new, so like this whole thing means like,

like a lot of people are new at their jobs and that presents a whole nother dynamic of like everybody trying to learn it together. The good thing about it all is for the most part, people that come into education are servant oriented, service oriented, they put others before themselves. So you get a degree of like willingness for people to do the right thing and put others in front of their own needs, which I'm not sure is always, my two daughters are in.

nurses. so I think nursing is very similar to that. ⁓ People are just generally trying to help and trying to be good. So I think there's a very positive upside to that, even though we're all trying to figure it out as we're going along.

Darrin Peppard (: 14:39

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think you're absolutely, absolutely right. There has been a real big turnover in that leadership pipeline from superintendent down, actually school boards down. And certainly as people are just trying to figure it out, that leads to some challenges. certainly I know the average duration of a superintendent in their role, I think right now is sitting at about three and a half years.

Ronn (: 15:04

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (: 15:21

that typically superintendents are turning over about every three, three and a half years. Yeah. And principalships, you know, same thing when, when I became the principal of my high school, I was the third principal in 35 years. And, you know, I mean, my predecessor, 17 years in that role, his predecessor, 18 years in that role, and even their predecessor was still around town. Those three and me had coffee once a month. I mean, you know, like, you know, just

Ronn (: 15:23

Yeah, might even be shorter than that. Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 15:51

generations of that community with the four of us as the building principal. Since I left that building, and I think that's eight or 10 years ago, they're on like their sixth principal since I left. And that's more common in schools than it is, you know, not the case. So, you know, I guess I'm kind of curious, too. I want to talk a little bit about the principal of the year work.

Ronn (: 16:05

Yeah, man.

Darrin Peppard (: 16:20

Yes, I was a principal of the year 2016 in Wyoming, anybody who's listening right now, I'm kind of curious, Ron, your take on this. ⁓ Don't ever introduce yourself as a former principal of the year. If you've won the award, you're still a principal of the year. Never say former. I don't know how you, yeah, I think 100 % you are a principal of the year once you've earned that award.

Ronn (: 16:38

Amen.

Darrin Peppard (: 16:46

You know, my recollection of that in 2016 when we all came together in Washington, DC, obviously we had an opportunity to do a lot of networking, do some work together. We all signed up for an opportunity to write for the NASSP blog. Of course, we went on the Hill, got to spend some time with ⁓ our legislators. ⁓

Ronn (: 17:04

Yep. Yep.

Darrin Peppard (: 17:11

What maybe does that look like now? So I have a friend who was just named state principal of the year in Wisconsin. so Brian Cox, shout out to Brian Cox. He'll be arriving at the 2025 event, I would assume, in the fall. So what does that look like now? And let's talk about some of the stuff NASSP does to really recognize and reward and reinforce and celebrate those administrators.

Ronn (: 17:19

Uh-huh.

Well, a couple of things, that's a lot. First of all, shout out to Brian Cox. What's up, Brian? How you doing? Yeah. Also from Wyoming, now hailing from Wisconsin, right? So, ⁓ great guy. Great guy. You know, what we've done over time, and this is again, back to the point about shout out to you for educators leading our own professional learning.

Darrin Peppard (: 17:49

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yes, absolutely.

Ronn (: 18:10

You know, I think, so for many decades, I think we were always in education. People always came in, you know, what's the new idea? What's the new thing? You know, here's the, and then, you know, a lot of those things, it took me a while to figure it out. A lot of those things were driven by folks other than education, you know. Like, and I get it, like workforce changes, the world changes, technologies, you know, evolving, all of those things. Those are important. But you know,

A lot of times these things are done to us, right? Like, oh, go do this. Now this is the new thing. You gotta go buy all this stuff. You gotta go all this training. Well, that's great, right? It's not great when you add all these new things, just keep piling them on. know, next thing you know, if it was a Christmas tree, next thing you add too many ornaments and the tree falls over, right? It's just, it's not healthy, right? What you need, you need the strong root system and you need the, you know, you need this, if this tree is gonna live, you need to chop the tree off and you stick it in the thing. If this tree is not gonna live.

Darrin Peppard (: 18:55

Man, that's a great analogy. Yeah.

Ronn (: 19:06

But if you're gonna like decorate a tree in your yard, you gotta make sure it's healthy and it's growing, because you want this thing to grow. And part of our thing in education was always waiting for somebody else to tell us what needed to be done. And what I've seen in education now is, because all of us have access to information and technology and stuff at our fingertips now, right? So I've seen educators more and more being more self-reliant on like,

I can get the stuff I need online, but this educator to educator exchange, this networking and collaboration and sharing of ideas, I've seen you do your thing and that's why you connect with so many people in such an effective way, is because you've done the job. People recognize it right away. you also, credit to you, you also acknowledge the things that you haven't done in that time period, which...

in education takes a lot of, you know, we're used to the show and tell back in the day, right? So you need to come out, you'd be vulnerable. You talk about, man, like I wasn't a principal during the pandemic. So the stuff I know, it's kind of moot, you know, the big ideas are relevant, but post pandemic leadership is a whole different ball game. And I think that, that, that creating those safe spaces and that honesty to really confront.

Darrin Peppard (: 20:08

Right.

percent.

Ronn (: 20:26

talk about the things that are working, but also to ask questions and learn about the things that all of us need to be working on individually and collectively. I think that's been a very positive development in the educational continuum. And I suppose it's related to like more new people coming in and the pace of change being much quicker, but I think it's a much more effective way to learn with us tapping into the...

knowledge and experiences of those that have come before us and those that are doing the job now. think that, yes, it's important to get information from the outside. And business and industry are great about providing those opportunities for us. What does the workforce need? What kind of partnerships or internships could we have to co-develop? But I think as a professional body of educators, we have to own our own professional learning and we have to make sure that we're getting the supports and...

and help to grow from people who really understand human and adult learning and growth. Because people who don't understand it or worse yet manipulate it can lead folks down a path that's not the most productive. No educator is going to lead another educator down an unproductive path like that because we know how important it is. So I think that I would say that's probably the biggest change in what's happening in K-12 space now. ⁓

I'm really excited to be part of that, frankly, just because it's just been a, you can tell it's been a thing in ⁓ a bug of mine or whatever that like, why are all these other people who never did it teaching us quote unquote, you know, teaching us, how do you teach somebody if you never did it? Now I don't know, hey, I'm not, I'm not an expert here, but I have a problem with that. So, or I just don't understand that, that way of thinking. So I'm really thrilled that.

educators are taking our own learning. so to your point, you know, the principle of the year celebration is a toss of celebration, but the learning that goes along with it, with the principles sharing these ideas and picking each other's brains and co-developing plans, that to me is where the real secret sauce is. we're very proud of that at the association, that that's the focus is really these amazing leaders ⁓ sharing.

what they've learned and what they've worked so hard to accomplish in their schools, generously sharing it with others and the other ones generously receiving it with enthusiasm and excitement.

Darrin Peppard (: 23:01

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. That was to me, you know, that was the best part of that whole experience. I mean, it was it was amazing going down to the Willard and you know, having the big, you know, the big formal celebration and all that. the connections that I built in those three days in in Washington, some some lifelong friendships now that continue on with, you know, people like Bill Ziegler and Jay Dostle.

Ronn (: 23:08

Yeah.

Yeah.

yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 23:31

and Tom Dodd and I mean, yeah, I mean, they're that's well, that's that's my crew right there, right there. That's my crew, you know, and I mean, so many of those folks that,

Ronn (: 23:32

You're dropping names now. is some ⁓ serious leadership.

Darrin Peppard (: 23:43

you know, that were part of that group, and we still to this day continue, you know, to have that connection and that and that relationship. And I think that's probably true with every one of those cohorts that, you know, they get that opportunity to build that network and

I mean, it's, it's so tough to be a building administrator. And so often, especially as a high school administrator, and please, middle school and elementary principals, don't don't take offense to what I'm going to say. More often than not, as the high school administrator, you are the high school principal in your community, there's probably multiple elementary principals, there's probably multiple middle school principals.

Ronn (: 24:06

No.

Yeah. Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (: 24:28

man being the principal at a high school can be so isolating. And you know that that's why I found you know being part of my state association was so valuable to be able to build those relationships. Yeah I mentioned Brian Cox he was just somebody you know one of those other guys that was part of that part of that you know state association you and I when we were together in Montana we talked about Ken Griffith who is just refuses to give up he just yeah Ken will never stop.

Ronn (: 24:45

Yes? Yes?

I was just going to say shout out Ken Griffith. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Darrin Peppard (: 24:57

at WASSP.

Ronn (: 24:57

no.

Darrin Peppard (: 24:59

But anyway, it's about building that connection. It's about building those bridges that you can pick up the phone and I could call a Jay Dostle and say, dude, here's what I'm dealing with. mean, have you seen something like this? And so the more we build those connections and another way that those connections happen and another way that professional development happens

is the United Conference. I mean, you guys have the United Conference coming up here in July. I don't want to not talk about the United Conference. Have you given get an opportunity to talk a little bit about what's in store for school leaders this coming summer in Seattle?

Ronn (: 25:41

Well, like you, first of all, Darren, thank you very much. Like you, you know, of course we're going to have amazing keynote speakers and got a great program laid out for everybody. But I agree with you. The real magic happens in the, during sessions or in between sessions where folks are processing the information that they've just heard or learned or experienced, but then really having a chance to chop it up with their colleagues. And then, you know, sometimes...

Sometimes it's hard to talk about this stuff in your own district or in your own feeder pattern, right? It's sometimes easier and frankly more productive to talk to someone from outside your county, outside your state. And then you realize like we always do, my God, they're going through, I thought there was only me. In fact, everybody in the room is going through and then you have these conversations about how are you solving that problem that you're dealing with. I think, so yeah, we're going to have...

Darrin Peppard (: 26:28

Right? Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Ronn (: 26:37

Of course, a ton of activities and a ton of get togethers and all of those things and those are all amazing. But really the magic of it is being in a room with people who you don't have to explain or translate with. We all speak the same language, you know, it is a unique language to K-12 leadership, but we all speak it and everybody's proficient. So like we can just pick up like, you know, you don't even have to explain, man, I'm dealing with this thing and everybody's, my God, me too. How about...

And that kind of conversation I think is so valuable because when you hear it from someone who's doing the work like you, ⁓ it's much easier to receive it and it's much easier to have a real professional conversation. I mean, it's like anything else, honing your craft. that I think is... And then of course, getting away just...

Especially to your point, I want to go back to your point about high school folks. All of us secondary folks all think the world of our elementary brothers and sisters because they're the ones who build the foundation. They always say, well, you're the high school principal. But there is no high school without a powerful elementary and a middle. So shout out to our elementary and middle leaders. But to your point, high school principals are where you're the

Darrin Peppard (: 27:46

yeah.

Very true. 100%.

Ronn (: 28:03

most public facing in that sense, right? Like, you know, who's graduating and who's not? Who's winning the awards and who's not? Which kids are going to what place and what thing after? What are they doing? So, you know, it really, like it or not, it really is this sort of jumping off point into life. And so of course, there's a lot of attention that's paid in the high schools. And of course, high school principals have it no other way, right? Like that's just how you do your thing, right? But... ⁓

Darrin Peppard (: 28:28

yeah, yeah, it's the best. Yeah,

it's an addictive job.

Ronn (: 28:32

But I do think

having principles not just of similar level, but also having a continuum of principles is very valuable because these leadership lessons, even though the situations and the size of the kids may be different, the leadership lessons are pretty much the same. And being able to talk about them across and between elementary, middle, and high is a valuable experience as well, which is another benefit of coming to an event like this where you've got

K-12 in the room.

Darrin Peppard (: 29:05

Yeah, absolutely. And a fantastic event without question. Certainly quite the production to put that all on. so big shout out to your team, to NAESP's team. mean, what an amazing ⁓ endeavor that is on behalf of principals. you know, from one principal to another, thank you for that work because it really does make a big difference. Yeah.

Ronn (: 29:29

Well, thank you, Darren. That's very kind of you. And I'll make sure our team knows, they work hard. You know, you're right. They do work

hard and they do it just because they care about the people that we serve. So I will definitely pass on your very kind words to our team.

Darrin Peppard (: 29:35

yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, I appreciate that. I really do. So, man, I'll tell you what our time is just is just flying by as I had a feeling it would it would it would do. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Yeah. So, so, Ron, I guess we're at that point, I'll ask you the same question I asked everybody here on the leaning into leadership podcast. And you've you've you've dropped already so many things along the way of what you're doing with leadership, but maybe maybe give us one more thing you're doing to lean into leadership right now.

Ronn (: 29:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like the plane.

You know, I talk a lot, so this is, you know, it's uncharacteristic of me, but right now I'm leaning into leadership by just listening. You know, our members, as you know, our members have so much to share and don't always have the time to share it. You know, they're not always given the opportunity to share. So I've been spending time just picking people's brains and talking to our members everywhere I have. I'm fortunate to

be in a room with them. I want to hear what they have to say. I want to know what they're thinking. I have that same relationship with our board of directors who, as you know, are all by requirement of our bylaws, must be a sitting principal or assistant principal. They give so much to others and to the organization. people don't always ask them what they think, right? Like, what are they going through? So I've been spending a lot of time just really listening and...

trying to learn as much as I can from our members so that we can better serve them going forward. And, you know, like I said, I talk a lot, but you know, when I put my listening ears on, if you will, like you said, know, people just drop wisdom for free. Like they're just sharing ideas and thoughts about the end. You know, I really do think it's about us as a profession learning to trust ourselves that we actually do know a lot about.

human and adult and child development. And I think if we start regarding our colleagues as experts and treating everybody in our ecosystem as experts, I think we're going to be much better off than hoping that someone's going to come save us from somewhere else. so, yeah, so I've been listening a lot.

Darrin Peppard (: 31:57

Yeah, I love that so much. think, I think that's one of the most important skills for a leader. Often the most overlooked skill for a leader, especially early career leaders, they'll struggle with that, that superhero syndrome and thinking, man, I got, I got to do everything. Listen to what Ron just said, lean into that, into that listening, because it makes such a difference for not only you as the leader, but also, I mean, I guarantee when

when you're at different events, when you're with your board of directors and you're just spending that time really listening to them, they find so much value in that. They appreciate that so much and they see that as leadership from you. It just makes such a difference.

Ronn (: 32:43

Well, I hope so. Again, none of our, you didn't get to where you are in life today. None of our members got to where they got because they were trying to get somewhere. They were always just trying to do something in service of other people's kids. And so, I feel like there's a special place in the world for that. We don't do it for fame or a parking stall or any of those things, right? So I just hope that...

People start to regard educators as professionals and really treat them that way because they deserve it. They give a lot in service of other people.

Darrin Peppard (: 33:23

Yeah, outstanding, outstanding. I cannot say it any better than that. ⁓ Man, this has been so much fun. ⁓ Folks, we'll make sure we've got Ron's contact info and all that kind of stuff down in the show notes. We'll put a link in there for the United Conference. You can check that out. ⁓ Man, this this was absolutely worth the time. I'm so grateful we got to spend some time together. Ron, thanks for joining me here on the podcast.

Ronn (: 33:46

Well, thank you, Darren, and keep up the good work. And of course, if there's anything that we can do to help or support you, just count us in, So thank you, Darren.

Darrin Peppard (: 33:56

All right, yeah, outstanding.

Darrin Peppard (: 03:19

Man, once again, folks, what an awesome conversation. I really appreciate Ron joining me here on Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Make sure that you get down there on the show notes, get connected with him. If you're not already connected with NASSP, make sure that you check them out and check out the United Conference. And now it's time for a pep talk. So last week, and unfortunately I wasn't able to be there, a former coworker of mine announced that she was retiring and the group had a retirement ceremony for her, kind of a retirement party. And I have several friends this year who are retiring from the profession. But in this individual's case, we worked together only for four years, but she was truly my right hand during my time as a superintendent. You know, we come across those people during our life that truly make an impact on us. They don't just make our lives easier at work.

They make our lives richer. They make our lives better because they're in them. My pep talk today is simply, want to say thank you to Martha Schocke for all the work that she's done at West Grand School District. She has truly made an unbelievable impact in her nearly 40 years in West Grand. Folks, you've got other folks that are at that retirement point now.

Make sure you reach out and talk to them. Make sure you reach out and let them know how much you appreciate the efforts that they put in, the impact that they have made, and how they have impacted you personally. I'll be reaching out to Martha very soon and saying exactly those things to her. That's what I've got for you this week, folks. Thank you so much for joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Get out there and have a road to awesome week.